PVP publish proposal

Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:02 pm

Note this is still draft and is a proposal, as these are major changes I would have people test play on the test server before it goes live.

Feel free to offer constructive feedback (no flames)

Caps * Applied to test server *
hit points: 130 max
stamina: 170 max
mana: 200 max

Archery
-Distance based on 10 tiles alters hit chance by up to 10%. 10 tiles away from target = 10% less hit chance, 5 tiles away, 5% less hit chance. Note that HCI is already pushed by 10% over DCI, so the 10% penalty would make the hit chance match that of any other shard. It only makes sense that being farther has greater chance to miss.

-The time required to stop moving for a shot to take place will be increased (not sure what yet, need to experiment)

Weapon damage (ranged/non ranged) * Applied to test server - values still in debate *
Ranged weapon max damage: 12 (on 70 resist)
Melee weapon max damage: 18 (on 70 resists)
this damage can be intensified with specials such as crushing blow, AI, and other damage increasing special abilities.

This would only be done in pvp, not pvm.

Artifacts * Applied to test server (and new artys here)*

Some artifacts are too overpowered, they should be toned down, and the existing will remain as is for a limited time, then be changed to the new properties after a period of time. (maybe a few months) These include lesser aoas and some of the custom doom artifacts. They should be brought to compare with existing osi ones. Typicaly artifacts have a weakness, but most of the customs don't, and this is not good.

Also this will help make it ore worthwhile to get the new ML artys once they become available.

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Nosferatu · Post by **Nosferatu** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:05 pm

archer idea sounds good but will it be the same for pvm? j/w

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Finlander · Post by **Finlander** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:06 pm

Squirrel, i most of the cases understand you totaly but not in this one.

I belive thats enough to make my point clear.

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:07 pm

Yeah would probably be the same, this could be abused too easily, ex: target a bird, hci cap goes to pvm mode then before it hits target a person. But considering hci is already pushed a notch by 10% since 120 skill and 45 hci only gives 50% hit chance by default, think this wont be a huge issue, but will mostly help with like longshot and such.

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Finlander · Post by **Finlander** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:09 pm

In my oppinion, nothign should ever be nerfed, but when proven that something is clearly better (which has not happened here since atleast i can be beaten by a mage) The opposite site should be boosten instead.

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:13 pm

mages were over powered, so I boosted dexxers, but I boosted them too much, and as well too many powerful arties got introduced, it would be better to correct this rather then go and boost mages. A good mage here still can deal lot of damage and have a chance... if I balance dexxers. mostly lower damage/speed/hits required to kill. Though the hp thing would be an issue with any template. Imagine a tamer with 180 hp sending a cu sidhe on you while running next to it. Even a well equipped tamer can be overpowered at the moment.

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DOCTOR THUNDER · Post by **DOCTOR THUNDER** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:16 pm

Finlander wrote:In my oppinion, nothign should ever be nerfed, but when proven that something is clearly better (which has not happened here since atleast i can be beaten by a mage) The opposite site should be boosten instead.

Hector, I am going to umm... get on your nipple and agree with you there. Your archer and my mage are an EVEN match right now. What can be more even than us not being able to kill each other?

What seems to be the real problem is people with inferior gear not being able to kill you 1vs1. Add to that when we team up and it gets ugly.

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Finlander · Post by **Finlander** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:17 pm

Red Squirrel wrote:mages were over powered, so I boosted dexxers, but I boosted them too much, and as well too many powerful arties got introduced, it would be better to correct this rather then go and boost mages. A good mage here still can deal lot of damage and have a chance... if I balance dexxers. mostly lower damage/speed/hits required to kill. Though the hp thing would be an issue with any template. Imagine a tamer with 180 hp sending a cu sidhe on you while running next to it. Even a well equipped tamer can be overpowered at the moment.

I dont understand your point, how does every class have change to be overpowered?

Cause the hp wont save your life, it only keeps you alive longer. If tamer would run next to me, i'd kill him first, or atleast make him run. After that lure the cu sidhe away, kill it and go finish the tamer.

And if you get 180hp with items, you deserve it.

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Gaiava Arkkaza · Post by **Gaiava Arkkaza** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:17 pm

Previous boosting is exactly what made we think about nerfing stuff now.

I'd say cap HP at 130, mana seems ok, and stamina I'd say 160.

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Alvar · Post by **Alvar** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:18 pm

So you're nerfing everything about dexxers? Even the PvM ones? I never PvP on Of the Vorpals and now i'm suffering because whiners think dexxers of overpowered? Nice. Gonna have to reshuffle my equip now to get more mana, plus if you're nerfing dexxers this much make mana cap 125, and 15 MR, just so dexxers don't hit someone spamming heal with 100%LRC 20MR 120Medit and 150 mana until we're bored silly.

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Finlander · Post by **Finlander** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:19 pm

DOCTOR THUNDER wrote:
Finlander wrote:In my oppinion, nothign should ever be nerfed, but when proven that something is clearly better (which has not happened here since atleast i can be beaten by a mage) The opposite site should be boosten instead.
Hector, I am going to umm... get on your nipple and agree with you there. Your archer and my mage are an EVEN match right now. What can be more even than us not being able to kill each other?

What seems to be the real problem is people with inferior gear not being able to kill you 1vs1. Add to that when we team up and it gets ugly.

Yeah and its not like we cant kill each other, its always damm near, like at bucs, it goes pretty much 50/50 when we have run off not to die and get more hps.

About archers doing too much dmg, you do more dmg than i do with your spellcombo+deathspell

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Finlander · Post by **Finlander** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:20 pm

Gaiava Arkkaza wrote:Previous boosting is exactly what made we think about nerfing stuff now.

I'd say cap HP at 130, mana seems ok, and stamina I'd say 160.

So what exactly is left of that boosting if i may ask

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indust · Post by **indust** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:22 pm

125hp cap sounds good.

But just lowering it would make the owners of the uber hp items sad. Just a suggestion, but it'd prolly make em feel better if:

After 100hp, every +1 hp on item only actually means 0.5hp, after 110 0.25 etc etc. I don't even know if it's possible or even worth it to go after the last 25 hit points, but at least the uber sets would matter after the capping.

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:24 pm

Probably will hardly affect pvm, other then tanks (which is my main char btw). in terms of damage, pvmers will often hit way above the 300di cap. a slayer gives you 200 right off the bat, double slayer is 400 (since it doubles your existing slayer DI)

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:26 pm

indust wrote:125hp cap sounds good.

But just lowering it would make the owners of the uber hp items sad. Just a suggestion, but it'd prolly make em feel better if:

After 100hp, every +1 hp on item only actually means 0.5hp, after 110 0.25 etc etc. I don't even know if it's possible or even worth it to go after the last 25 hit points, but at least the uber sets would matter after the capping.

That would be possible but be confusing, specially for new people. But one way to look at it, just lower str, make stam or mana higher. Or put other items like regen/lrc/lmc etc.

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Nosferatu · Post by **Nosferatu** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:29 pm

indust wrote:125hp cap sounds good.

But just lowering it would make the owners of the uber hp items sad. Just a suggestion, but it'd prolly make em feel better if:

After 100hp, every +1 hp on item only actually means 0.5hp, after 110 0.25 etc etc. I don't even know if it's possible or even worth it to go after the last 25 hit points, but at least the uber sets would matter after the capping.

Thats exactlly whats going on..

the 125 hp which they dont realize affects the whole entire shard meaning we will also have it meaning we will be easier to kill. It just takes a cows brain to do the math...

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Finlander · Post by **Finlander** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:30 pm

i say it one last time that there is really no need for this, people like doc/reco/ratboy/eby/nose
Have proven numerous times that equaly armed mage can and will kill a dexxer.
TOo bad they are not here to talk about that now, other than nose, who i managed to piss off.

And squirrel, even you noticed that the hp wont save you in khaldun and so did i.

I dont know exaclty who this craig is on demise but to me it seems that if one can do that much with a single post what basicaly says that he cant kill a dexxer with his mage what has crappier items, heck he must be a president of somesort.

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Gaiava Arkkaza · Post by **Gaiava Arkkaza** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:30 pm

Finlander wrote:
Gaiava Arkkaza wrote:Previous boosting is exactly what made we think about nerfing stuff now.

I'd say cap HP at 130, mana seems ok, and stamina I'd say 160.
So what exactly is left of that boosting if i may ask

Your whole gear. Same applies for my suit. And Craig has my old suit, unique thing thats missing on it is a holy knights.

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Gaiava Arkkaza · Post by **Gaiava Arkkaza** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:33 pm

Ah, and about Ratboy, I'm sure he'd agree with me:

When he was here, no one had over 110 hp. Got it? It was a fair fight except for the uber HCI part, was hard, but was fun.

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Finlander · Post by **Finlander** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:33 pm

more hp only means longer fights, nothing more.

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Gaiava Arkkaza · Post by **Gaiava Arkkaza** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:38 pm

Finlander wrote:more hp only means longer fights, nothing more.

Hm, not just that. But obviously the stuff I say is going right thru your head, so I wont bother anymore.

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Finlander · Post by **Finlander** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:39 pm

Gaiava Arkkaza wrote:
Finlander wrote:more hp only means longer fights, nothing more.
Hm, not just that. But obviously the stuff I say is going right thru your head, so I wont bother anymore.

Maybe it does but so deas the stuff i say to you.

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Gaiava Arkkaza · Post by **Gaiava Arkkaza** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:42 pm

Finlander wrote:
Gaiava Arkkaza wrote:
Finlander wrote:more hp only means longer fights, nothing more.
Hm, not just that. But obviously the stuff I say is going right thru your head, so I wont bother anymore.
Maybe it does but so deas the stuff i say to you.

I understand your point. But you are looking just into your side, thats the main difference bewteen we two atm.

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Death · Post by **Death** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:43 pm

Weren't stats capped at 150 anyways? 125 natural and 150 with items. Also, on demise forums an interesting post came out about mana caps and OSI:

Prohunter:

"actually the cap on OSI is 18 mana regen and 18 hp regen on OSI on your SUIT. You can get much higher then that in items but its caped like sdi or fc.

On osi with out the cap you can get

HoM - 4mr
PoM - 3mr
RBC - 3mr
gloves -2mr
Sleeves- 2mr
legging - 2mr
2different one handed items give 3mr
Event item Sash gives - 2mr
Event item shield gives -3mr
Ml ring gives -3mr
Dark Sapphire bracelet- 2mr

As you can see they had to cap it for a reason, it was possible to reach 29 mr in items alone."

Not sure the accuracy of this but it is worth investigating if you are thinking of capping/reducing something.

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Nosferatu · Post by **Nosferatu** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 9:44 pm

look hector i agree with having high hp and making fights last longer the problem is man like when u 3 ganked me in despise man even with 160 hp how can i possibly kill 1 person? 3 of the most prominant pvpers in their class Doc on his mage, you archer, eby mage all 3 fighting me? how does it last longer its actually almost impossible, if we all had 160 hp theres no way as a mage i could do enough damage to kill one of you even get oyu half way but do i try? yes i try everytime and u guys know it. the fact is its the whole SL and TB cuz of doc vs the shard and thats fucking downright impossible with such high hp and u guys know it

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