Tames and their abilities ..

Minky · Post by **Minky** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:00 am

I know I haven't been around, but this revamp looks promising.
The one thing that most games don't do, is go back through their old systems and bring them up to par.

What are the odds of giving the original monsters SE/ML abilities? Like Drakes should have a bleed attack (due to their claws).

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Death · Post by **Death** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:24 am

Minky wrote:I know I haven't been around, but this revamp looks promising.
The one thing that most games don't do, is go back through their old systems and bring them up to par.

What are the odds of giving the original monsters SE/ML abilities? Like Drakes should have a bleed attack (due to their claws).

Greater dragons have a bleed attack (Due to their claws) so no worries there as they will inherit that ability. Many of the classic OSI tames will remain untouched (Aside from their standard statistics in case there are discrepancies). One exception being the fire steed which will continue to keep its custom aov abilities of immolate and fire ride. Custom tames are free to have abilities coded to them however, provided they are balanced.

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Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:54 pm

ohh man please tell me when u code greater dragons that they wont be a gimp in pvp as on osi

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Death · Post by **Death** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:18 pm

Redrum lot- wrote:ohh man please tell me when u code greater dragons that they wont be a gimp in pvp as on osi

Although I want to stick as closely to the OSI models as possible, some changes may be necessary for pvm and pvp if they prove to be too much (Main concern is pvp as the skill requirement to control them for PVM is high which merits their power).

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dprantl · Post by **dprantl** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:19 pm

Redrum lot- wrote:ohh man please tell me when u code greater dragons that they wont be a gimp in pvp as on osi

If you get beat in PvP by one mob and tamer that has to dedicate three full skills to taming *AND* has to be on foot, then you need to practice more.

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Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:23 pm

on osi archer tamer so dismounted and the breath on Gdragons is like 75% health youve all seen my suit thats corpseskin proof all 70's so i do not need practice...

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Death · Post by **Death** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:33 pm

Redrum lot- wrote:on osi archer tamer so dismounted and the breath on Gdragons is like 75% health youve all seen my suit thats corpseskin proof all 70's so i do not need practice...

It will be fixed if it proves to be ultra gimp but the way I see it, that's a 5 skill requirement to be able to execute that attack (Taming, lore, archery, tactics and vet) so it's not really too bad cept the breath attack's damage is excessive. It all depends on movement speed VS damage and other pvp related factors.

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Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:50 pm

yeh and its not the fact that fighting one is bad takes 4+ppl to kill it, its when u get a group of the dragons its like insta death

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dprantl · Post by **dprantl** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:54 pm

Redrum lot- wrote:yeh and its not the fact that fighting one is bad takes 4+ppl to kill it, its when u get a group of the dragons its like insta death

Because a group of PK'ers with precast FS targetting one guy is not insta death

The point here is that a tamer without these dragons stands absolutely zero chance against a PK'er that is designed for killing/fighting players. I say give tamers at least a fighting chance in PvP, why not? Isn't that what balance is all about? And don't tell me you would not be able to beat a tamer with a GDragon 9 times out of 10 1v1?

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Death · Post by **Death** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:56 pm

Don't forget that killing the tamer results in the pet not listening.

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Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:58 pm

dprantl wrote:
Redrum lot- wrote:yeh and its not the fact that fighting one is bad takes 4+ppl to kill it, its when u get a group of the dragons its like insta death
Because a group of PK'ers with precast FS targetting one guy is not insta death The point here is that a tamer without these dragons stands absolutely zero chance against a PK'er that is designed for killing/fighting players. I say give tamers at least a fighting chance in PvP, why not? Isn't that what balance is all about? And don't tell me you would not be able to beat a tamer with a GDragon 9 times out of 10 1v1?

go play osi for one day and you will see how greater dragons runied the game thats why osi is taking pets outa pvp

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dprantl · Post by **dprantl** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:13 pm

I have played OSI with Greater Dragons (one someone else's account for a bunch of hours on a few different occasions). Many UO PvP'ers think that archer/dexxer/mage are the only PvP classes and any others becoming successful signals the death of PvP and ruining the entire game. I think any class with access to any kind of weapon should be viable in PvP, whether it is a sword, bow or a pet. Like Death said, kill the tamer and the pet won't know what to do anymore.

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:28 pm

TBH I still don't know if I even want to add greater dragons. We had AWs here and it was a disaster. Way too overpowered. But we'll see when the time comes if we can make them well balanced.

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Death · Post by **Death** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:34 pm

Red Squirrel wrote:TBH I still don't know if I even want to add greater dragons. We had AWs here and it was a disaster. Way too overpowered. But we'll see when the time comes if we can make them well balanced.

There's a difference, particularly resist and AI wise between the dragons and the ancient wyrms. This is why ancient wyrms didn't really work out. You can think of a greater dragon along the same lines as a regular dragon but with more strength and hit points. There are a bunch of conditions OSI put in for greater dragons to keep them par. If they are deemed to be too powerful, you know they'll nerf them anyways so we'll just follow suit.

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dprantl · Post by **dprantl** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:38 pm

Red Squirrel wrote:TBH I still don't know if I even want to add greater dragons. We had AWs here and it was a disaster. Way too overpowered. But we'll see when the time comes if we can make them well balanced.

Why was it a disaster? Because people could solo things that you deemed should not be solo-able on a server that had an average online player count < 20? Seriously? When on the other hand you could make a dexxer with a blackhole that could solo pretty much anything worth soloing?

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Death · Post by **Death** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 2:46 pm

dprantl wrote: Why was it a disaster? Because people could solo things that you deemed should not be solo-able on a server that had an average online player count < 20? Seriously? When on the other hand you could make a dexxer with a blackhole that could solo pretty much anything worth soloing?

Wasn't so much that it was the fact that people would multi-client and use them as tanks while the tamers stayed out of view and did absolutely nothing (Hidden on top of that to avoid any damage). When you don't have to vet your pet against the toughest monsters, there is a problem. Even warriors who leech life die and have to res sometimes, although I will agree that the blackhole is over the top for weaponry and doesn't deserve any special treatment (Which it won't be getting with the revamp anyways).

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:32 pm

Yeah black hole will be changed up. i use it on my own char and I will agree it's overpowered.

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geezushhchrist · Post by **geezushhchrist** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:19 am

my AW (idk if u guys got rid of them yet) isnt that giid for a AW i use in on almin with a mare and it gets pwned i hide because he 1HKs me

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Death · Post by **Death** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:47 am

geezushhchrist wrote:my AW (idk if u guys got rid of them yet) isnt that giid for a AW i use in on almin with a mare and it gets pwned i hide because he 1HKs me

There's a lot of different versions of AWs cause they were changed a lot.

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dprantl · Post by **dprantl** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:57 pm

Well, I still have the old AW, the one that takes up 5 slots and basically is like the one that spawns normally with super casting AI. I never use it because honestly it gets pwned by most bosses. Every time I tried a new boss, I would break out the AW thinking, ok this should be easy haha. Then he gets his ass handed to him. I think now with the monster AI and casting intensity levels, they are not nearly as good as they used to be.

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Colors of Wanker · Post by **Colors of Wanker** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:35 am

Red Squirrel wrote:TBH I still don't know if I even want to add greater dragons. We had AWs here and it was a disaster. Way too overpowered. But we'll see when the time comes if we can make them well balanced.

What do you mean had????

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Death · Post by **Death** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:02 pm

Colors of Wanker wrote:
Red Squirrel wrote:TBH I still don't know if I even want to add greater dragons. We had AWs here and it was a disaster. Way too overpowered. But we'll see when the time comes if we can make them well balanced.

What do you mean had????

Aws were revised at least 8 times so there's a good 8 different versions of various stats roaming around following its tamer.

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Gaiava Arkkaza · Post by **Gaiava Arkkaza** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:01 pm

dprantl wrote:
Redrum lot- wrote:yeh and its not the fact that fighting one is bad takes 4+ppl to kill it, its when u get a group of the dragons its like insta death
Because a group of PK'ers with precast FS targetting one guy is not insta death The point here is that a tamer without these dragons stands absolutely zero chance against a PK'er that is designed for killing/fighting players. I say give tamers at least a fighting chance in PvP, why not? Isn't that what balance is all about? And don't tell me you would not be able to beat a tamer with a GDragon 9 times out of 10 1v1?

I've played with hiryu tamers before, and pets are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too overpowered for PvP. Why? Because they have no caps. A hiryu can take 60 damage right away from someone and attacks at 1.25 seconds. It's damage is not halved like it player vs player damage is. Greater dragons follow suit and can instantly kill someone with melee + breath. Not even counting spells and the tamer's spells/attacks.

I'm pretty sure that "pvpers" with g-dragons forget about veterinary completely, they just take taming and lore for control chance and bonding. As a matter of fact, that's what I do on my hiryu tamers. That being said, they can easily fight off anyone without their pets.

I'm all for tamers being able to fight out on pvp, but pets ARE overpowered in pvp. If their damage would be capped at like 20 per hit it wouldn't be that much of a hassle.

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Plastic Man · Post by **Plastic Man** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:07 am

Gaiava Arkkaza wrote:
dprantl wrote:
Redrum lot- wrote:yeh and its not the fact that fighting one is bad takes 4+ppl to kill it, its when u get a group of the dragons its like insta death
Because a group of PK'ers with precast FS targetting one guy is not insta death The point here is that a tamer without these dragons stands absolutely zero chance against a PK'er that is designed for killing/fighting players. I say give tamers at least a fighting chance in PvP, why not? Isn't that what balance is all about? And don't tell me you would not be able to beat a tamer with a GDragon 9 times out of 10 1v1?
I've played with hiryu tamers before, and pets are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too overpowered for PvP. Why? Because they have no caps. A hiryu can take 60 damage right away from someone and attacks at 1.25 seconds. It's damage is not halved like it player vs player damage is. Greater dragons follow suit and can instantly kill someone with melee + breath. Not even counting spells and the tamer's spells/attacks.

I'm pretty sure that "pvpers" with g-dragons forget about veterinary completely, they just take taming and lore for control chance and bonding. As a matter of fact, that's what I do on my hiryu tamers. That being said, they can easily fight off anyone without their pets.

I'm all for tamers being able to fight out on pvp, but pets ARE overpowered in pvp. If their damage would be capped at like 20 per hit it wouldn't be that much of a hassle.

Or perhaps at the 35 caps for normal PvP and not uber nerf

.

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Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:35 am

yeah nerf tamers. Because they havnt been nerfed enough with the skill requirements for most pets worth having now.
With monsters and specially bosses.

A cu is a bucket of junk honestly and it requires 105 taming
A ru is cannon fodder full stop
A dragon or wyrm is altra cannon fodder unless requently vetted.
Mares are not worth mentioning

So I ask you this
Are you going to make people buy 120 power scrolls for lore and taming and vet just so they have a pet capeable of doing limited damage.
And atleast 100 Resisting spells for when AI takes affect lol or when some idiot realises they just have to kill the tamer in pvp not the pet.(prolly more so they arnt explosion, mind blast energy bolt combo insta kills?)

Tamers that do great damage do so because they know how to play their pets and skills. You cant nerf peeps chars just because they got good at them.

Face facts. Veterans dont like things changeing. They have always gotten all the rewards for pvp tournaments and want it to stay that way. So thats that cleared up.
There isnt a single monster that cant be solo'd witht he right template. So why nerf the tamer because they use pets not swords
its not about damage its about retraining tactics to work around the pets. And yes this means some veterans might have to dig into thier pockets to change skills around and buy another 120 scroll but hey everything changes or UO would have been dead long ago.

(the strongest char i ever built was Bush Pally tamer vet archer. And I did wayyyyyyyyyy more damage then anyone i have every seen. But in pvp's once i was lethally poisoned i stuck my head between my legs and kissed my ass good bye while my oponent only had to spam heal. And avoid my pets until I blead and poisoned out)
In pvm this char raped and I mean raped.

So in summary. Stop trying to maintain a failing status-quo in this shard.
I would say tamers are very strong but to have very strong pets they sacrifice something. So in dueling figure out what they sacrificed and hope u can exploit it. Yes thinking on the spot not pre-thoughtout macros or scripts. Which means yes a different man will prolly turn out the best man in every tournament which is bloody tops. Some times u get luck sometimes u get unlucky. Stop trying to tip the Odds.
THATS CALLED TACTICS NOT VETERANS HAVING A SOOK BECAUSE DUELS NOW INVOLVE THOUGHT NOT SCRIPS.
ALSO IT INVOLVE's GUILDS AND ALLIANCES DEALING WITH THE FACT THEY ARNT THE ONLY ONES CAPEABLE OF COMPLETEING BOSS's AND SUPREME"S AND BEING THE ONLY ONES WITH ALL THE DECENT ITEMS.

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