Double Standards re: Gender

Stasi · Post by **Stasi** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:38 pm

Female school teachers having sex with boy students, girl robbers being described as "little girls that made a bad choice", custody of children in divorces - are women treated more 'gently' when it comes to crime and family law? Should they be? Why?

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scherzo · Post by **scherzo** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:18 pm

HE HE HE

It wasn't long ago that women were not concidered 'citizens' ( or having full rights ) and this meant that ALL LAWS WERE DEVELOPED to address MALE actions

to answer your question, are women treated more 'gently' when it comes to crime and family law? Should they be? Why?

YES they are, No they should not, because all laws were written for men

New laws should be created and some laws should be re-written for men to have equality in law

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manadren · Post by **manadren** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:02 pm

I think if you look at that "little girls that made a bad choice" story, it has as much to do with them being girls as it has to do with them being white and it happening in upscale Acworth, Georgia. But that's a different argument.

As far as the law is concerned, the law as it's written and should be carried out, I don't think there is much lenience for women over men. However, it is those who enforce the law and interpret the law who are fallible, and there is much in our society that tends to find women less culpable.

I would say women should be treated just as harshly as men, but how do you keep the tendencies of the judges, jurors, law enforcement, and media from affecting the application of law?

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Stasi · Post by **Stasi** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:11 pm

Good question. And it's not like men feel very strongly about it either. A lot of guys might even fantasize about being a teenager in middle or high school and have an attractive teacher come on to them. It's one of those things that will remain a problem in the justice system for years or decades to come. But of course, we all have our biases, be they to favor a gentler punitive system towards women, a harsher one towards blacks, etc. But then again, no one ever said the justice system ever would or could become 100% accurate and effective. Thus is the state of human nature.

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Stasi · Post by **Stasi** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:08 am

An excerpt from the latest CNN article on the bank robber "Barbies":

A mother's anguish

Repeated phone calls by CNN.com to Johnston's family were not returned. Allen has bonded out of the Cobb County Jail.

Chastang, Johnston, and Miller remain there. Miller was not given a bond; she violated probation on an August 2006 DUI conviction, said her attorney, Bruce Harvey.

His client intends to plead not guilty, he said. Her next court appearance is March 23.

"She's a frightened young kid who finds herself in the eyes of a media whirlwind that she never anticipated," Harvey said.

Asked how he will build a defense against his client's admission to police that she is a drug dealer, he replied, "Obviously, not a very sophisticated statement."

The girl's mother, Joy Miller, rejected the allegation that her daughter is involved with drugs. "She is taking the blame for the boy who has the drugs, 'cause she's a sweet girl with a big heart."

http://www.cnn.com/2007/LAW/03/07/teen.bandits/index.html

Mommy Miller appears to be quite out of touch with her daughter. Are people really so naive? Lots of people who commit serious, even horrible crimes have friends and family say afterwards that they can't believe s/he could have done this and go on about how nice and 'normal' they seemed. Looks like these girls need a wake-up call into reality and some jailtime will do them good, hopefully. But once again, I doubt that if this were a story where all the folks involved were guys, we wouldn't be hearing this nonsense about them being 'frightened young kids' or them being 'sweet boys with big hearts'. The lawyer and mother are trying to portray these girls as less than criminals. I hope when it goes to trial that, assuming the evidence shows these girls' (and boys') culpability, the jury hand them a verdict that will teach them a lesson.

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Chyse · Post by **Chyse** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:16 am

People talk about how women were opressed and stuff, and i think it was bad and i'm glad it's gone. But what i'm not happy about is that it's gone completely the opposite way. Now women are being treated better than men are being treated.
Remember that girl who killed her husband who was some kind of preacher or something? When she killed him, there were hundreds of people who were supporting her and on her side about it. They said they didn't care if she killed him, she's a good person and stuff.
If any man were to kill his wife, how many people would back him up? nobody, except maybe some convicts. Now this is an extreme example but it paralells how men are treated in today's society. women can get away with a lot more than men can.

also, men are shown as idiots in the media a lot. most of the commericals out right now that depict a man and a woman show an unintelligent man, or show the woman outsmarting the man.
Last time i checked, men weren't stupid. Neither are women. I know a lot of smart males and a lot of smart females, and i dont consider myself stupid either. I think it's wrong that people might look at me as stupid just because i'm a guy.

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:06 pm

One thing I noticed is cases involving abuse, no matter what, the guy is at fault. Sure 99% of the time this is the case, but they should still investigate with an open mind and look at both men and woman equaly until they have evidence pointing towards the one at fault. You never know, you could have a wife beating a husband, it could happen and I'm sure it does. But if a police investigation were to happen, the man would be at fault for defending himself. Ex: wife hits husband with roling pin or something that could rather hurt, husband grabs it from her hand, maybe pushes her, as defense, from a law point of view, he's now a wife abuser.

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Chyse · Post by **Chyse** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 10:57 am

yeah, i agree with Red. The law is heavily weighted towards girls.
and how about abortion? what if the guy wants the kid but the girl doesn't? shouldn't the guy get to keep his baby? I understand that the girl has to go through the labor and stuff, but it was her choice to have sex in the first place, she should have thought of that before she did it. and she should have to pay child support like the guy would have to if she wanted the baby and he didn't. What if you had sex with this girl you loved, but she didn't want the baby, but you wanted it because you would love to have a baby. but it's inside her, so she gets to choose what to do with it. and she kills it. she kills your little baby boy or girl. that's so unjust. the consequences of sex are much more harsh for girls, but that just means they have more reason to make the choice carefully than guys do. it's still they're fault and legally, the baby should be considered as both the parent's kid equally. not the girl's kid just because it's in her body.

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Alistair · Post by **Alistair** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 8:13 am

goalguarder12 wrote: also, men are shown as idiots in the media a lot. most of the commericals out right now that depict a man and a woman show an unintelligent man, or show the woman outsmarting the man.
Last time i checked, men weren't stupid. Neither are women. I know a lot of smart males and a lot of smart females, and i dont consider myself stupid either. I think it's wrong that people might look at me as stupid just because i'm a guy.

My chemistry teacher from my old school was a woman and she would constantly joke about all males being idiotic.
These jokes included annoying attacks on the multi-tasking abilities of males, the ability of males to have taste and sophistication, and many other issues.
Sure, once upon a time, foolish men would say to women, "Hah, you can't work as an engineer", or, "You can't master karate", but has the world changed so much that now it's in reverse.

I respect females and believe in total equality among both genders, but that's not what we have.
Movies, TV shows, music, and many other forms of media too often portray a picture of a male as a 'beer-gulping, big-gutted, idiotic fool' who can not perform even the simple tasks of making their own dinner, washing their own clothes, or successfully acheiving their goals.
The media must make amends to this immediately.
I have no interest in alcohol at all (It messes up the hormonal system, puts you in a state where you are vunerable to do things that could harm your reputation, and shows how foolish you are if you actually drink the filth, and besides, it tastes disgusting); I can multi-task perfectly fine, performing many tasks at once; I enjoy the complexity of such works as 'James Joyce's Ulysees' and 'Neon Genesis Evangelion'; I love the works of Gilbert and Sullivan and other fine arts such as painting, writing, and classical music.
I am a male child and am in no way stupid.

Do I want to see a female president?
Yes.
Do I want to hear that behind every great man there's an even greater woman?
No.

Laws must be the same for all people of a nation, else it is NOT a nation.
Just as women deserve equal pay and equal job prospects, they deserve the same laws as males.
What do I mean by they deserve?
Well wouldn't YOU consider it an insult to be taken lightly just because you were a woman.
The same goes for black people, they should have equal laws as everyone else.
It is an insult to say, well you're black, so you can't be prosecuted.
It is like saying, he's a child, he doesn't know any better.
Are women and black-people merely children?
No.

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Stasi · Post by **Stasi** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 10:00 am

I respect females and believe in total equality among both genders, but that's not what we have.

How do you define "total equality"?

I have no interest in alcohol at all [...], puts you in a state where you are vunerable to do things that could harm your reputation

Depends on how much you drink.

Laws must be the same for all people of a nation, else it is NOT a nation.

There is no definition of "nation" that requires total legal equality amongst its peoples.

It is like saying, he's a child, he doesn't know any better.

Actually, I see a huge difference between the mens rea of a 20 year old and a 10 year old when both commit the same "bad" action. Sometimes a child, who lacks experience and perspective in the world, really doesn't know any better.

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Chyse · Post by **Chyse** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:23 am

okay, so i agree with a lot of what alistair said.
i want equality between men and women, and i am tired of hearing "women are better because" and all this crap.
lol, i play the flute, i have a talent for poetry that most of my female friends envy, and yes, i talk about my "feelings."
am i gay? no
am i an equal? yes
i do steriotipical "girly" things. and i'm damn good at a lot of them. it really offends me when people say that girls are better with "fine arts" or "multitasking." yeah, for the general public that may be true. but A) who cares? i dont want to hear that any gender does anything better than another gender. and frankly, i don't care. and

i know girls who are awesome at "guyish" things like problem-solving and engineering.
statistically, men are better at mechanical things than women are and women are better at writing/artsy type of things than men are. that doesn't mean men are better or women are better. that means we're different. that's all. why should anybody be put down because they're different? just because generally guys are not as good writers as women, doesnt mean we should make fun of guys for it.

yes, i've heard that damn quote. "behind every great man there's a greater woman." and i think it'd a load of bullshit. yes, women help in society just as much as men do. no, a man doesn't need a woman to be a "great man." i won't hang too heavy on this issue because it's just why i think this quote is stupid.

women used to be treated like crap. i mean serious crap. like, when a woman was depressed or upset, the doctors would tell her she needs to take medicine and get rest because she was just "tired" or feeling ill. it was a "woman thing." like women were dogs who could be made better by drinking some apple juice and patting them on the head.
now things are reversing. men are becoming the low-life idiots. and it's not right. and i dont care if you say it's "payback for what happened to women." that's a load of bullshit. are we really going to resort to revenge as our answer to solving problems? i would hope not.

anyways, women and men are treated WAY differently now. and it's getting bad for the men.
but you know what's absolutely RIDICULOUS?
if a company fires a female employee, she can sue the company and say that she was fired because she was a woman. that's so much bullshit, you couldn't fit it in a wheelbarrow the size of maine. the same thing happens with african americans and ESPECIALLY african american females. in the business world, you can't fire an african american female unless there is a REALLY good reason. otherwise, she can sue and will win 95% of the time. it's so dumb that our legal system revolves around giving minorities special rights. it's unfair.
lets face it, it ROCKS to be a minority in america. but that's a whole new thread.

anyways, men and women arent being treated equally and they should be. that's pretty much the point i'm making here.

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Stasi · Post by **Stasi** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:09 pm

Well, gg, I have to say I agree with the point of your post. It seems to me that a lot of people don't have a problem with "reverse discrimination", but when that sort of thing is allowed and condoned by certain powers in the media or as a part of the general social conscience, then people do NOT become colorblind, or truly respectful of others differences, as between women and men.

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robonightmare · Post by **robonightmare** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:52 pm

see, that is where discrimination gets us all! whats the problem? is it human nature to discriminate black people or women? no! is it really stupid? yes! so why don't we stop? i'll tell you. because they are so used to being treated ultra-carefully to avoid offending them or giving them the impression that they are being discriminated against, that when we treat them normally, they get pissed, so we have to become careful again. it's a cycle!

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