Heavenly Thoughts

OLKMED · Post by **OLKMED** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:03 am

According to christianity if you believe in god, don't sin, and be good overall, you'll probably go to heaven. Heaven is told as a place that is perfect where you can be happy for all eternity. I ask myself "do I really want to live in such a place?" (now i'm not saying we should all not believe in god, sin, and be bad. hell's still a worse choice)

This idea was spurned by "Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley and his "perfect utopia"

now this may sound kinda stupid but i'm sure most people would agree in order to feel good you had to have felt bad, and vice versa. after about 1000 years in heaven i probably will have totally forgotten what it was like to be sad. then would i really be living if i didn't have emotions?

second, if heaven is "perfect" then it is different for each person, and each person would have their own heaven (unless there was another person exactly like me, but would i really get along with them?). If each person lives in a totally new world made up just for them nothing would be real, there would be no conflict there would be nothing to stir the emotions. If i knew that the world around me was created just for me but it wasn't real would i truly be "happy for eternity" knowing that?"

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manadren · Post by **manadren** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:21 am

A freind of mine brought broguth this up once we we were discussing heavan. And I have to say, that even though I dont' beleive in heavan, I agree with is asthe view of the christian heavan.

In heavan you you are content. Content to be in heavan with your god. That's it. No special heavan for each person, no conflict, none of that. You are simply content that you are in heavan with your god. You don't want anything, you are simply happy with what you have. Considering this god made you and all I think he could do that.

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OLKMED · Post by **OLKMED** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:28 am

I would hate to be belittled by a god who seems to take so much pride in his work.

and how much do i really know about god? some scrolls told me about him, and then Jesus and whatnot, but everything argues so much, and all the monotheistic religions (i don't know much about the others) have been written and re-written, who is to say that the first monk who copied the bible didn't change some things around, or that one powerful religious leader decided he didn't like something so he changed the books to better suit him?

ok that kinda got off topic

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Bookworm · Post by **Bookworm** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:40 am

Heaven is never described as a place where you can be happy for all eternity. It is decribed as a place where you will be with God for all eternity. God designed us to enjoy His fellowship, but then Adam sinned, and the entrance of sin in the world caused man to shift his focus from God and turn it toward his own self. Even the question "Do I really want to live in such a place?" seems a somewhat self-centered way of looking at heaven. I have no doubt that being in the presence of God's perfect love will provide us with more than enough satisfaction to last for eternity. And the Bible does mention a certain measure of individuality. Jesus told His disciples, "I go to prepare a place for you." The word tranlated "place" has the sense of a room, and if Jesus is preparing a room for me, then I"m pretty sure I can trust Him to prepare a room that I would enjoy.

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:07 pm

I've wondered the same at times, but I have no clue how I will think in heaven, for example will I have the urge to build the most powerful computer etc... But my guess is that once were in heaven which will be sinless and perfect we won't want to do all the things we want to do here, we'll simply want to be with God and have fellowship. From the point of view of someone on Earth it sounds that it would be boring after a while but I have faith in God that it won't be, once I'm there since emotions and feelings will be completely different.

Though I think I miss understood parts of revelations since it was talking about heaven being 15,000 miles long and width and have 12 storeys made of certains types of material but I always picked heaven as being huge with no actual limits. But it did speak of the streets of gold etc... Since if heaven has a limited size, that means it will be quite crowded.

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Bookworm · Post by **Bookworm** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:33 pm

The length and width measurements are for the city that will be on earth during the 1000 year reign of Christ.

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:49 pm

Oh I see. That will be one big city though, that's why the sea will have to be removed. Talk about a major renovation project.

Where is the actual description of heaven, since somehow I must of read it without realizing or something.

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Bookworm · Post by **Bookworm** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:12 pm

I was just looking in Revelation to see if there was a description of heaven, and the only description was of the city, and I had the timing wrong. The city that is measured exists after the 1000 years, not during it.

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 8:22 pm

Yeah that's what I find odd since I remember hearing other people talking about the description of heaven. That's how we know it will have streets of gold and no negative feelings etc...

So if I get this right, whoever will remain on the planet after the 7 years of satan and the 1000 years of God rulling will get to see the city. Those 7 years will be pretty tough though!

Edit: The descriptions are not in revelation but throughout the Bible, sort of like little hints here and there. http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Rhodes/7895/heaven.html

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shenbaw · Post by **shenbaw** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 1:35 pm

Red Squirrel wrote: Yeah that's what I find odd since I remember hearing other people talking about the description of heaven. That's how we know it will have streets of gold and no negative feelings etc...

Personally, I really don't think "God" will have the slightest bit of regard for the things that we humans have come to hold with such materialistic value here on earth, such as "gold." Do you? What would be the purpose of having there be "streets of gold?" To make us feel good about the fact that our feet are being supported by a beautiful precious metal found beneath the earth's surface? Hell, what would be the purpose behind having "streets," much less "streets of gold?" Are we going to be driving diamond-incrusted BMWs too?

I suppose in heaven we'll also be whiping our arses with hundred dollar bills?

Red Squirrel wrote: So if I get this right, whoever will remain on the planet after the 7 years of satan and the 1000 years of God rulling will get to see the city. Those 7 years will be pretty tough though!

Good to know, now all we have to do is wait for satan to take over, then figure out how to stay here for another 1007 years, and it's all about the bling from there on out!

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 2:18 pm

Who says people won't still have babies during those times. It will be "normal" life, just much, much harder.

I think the whole gold concept is more to symbolize that it means nothing compared to God, and the posettions we own on Earth are nothing compared to what will be in heaven, since it will be used as pavement, were people to walk all over on.

And think of how well it conducts electricity, the streets might also be used for the electric infrastructure. Just need 2 layers seperated by non conductive material (diamonds? lol)

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shenbaw · Post by **shenbaw** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 2:39 pm

Red Squirrel wrote: Who says people won't still have babies during those times. It will be "normal" life, just much, much harder.

I think the whole gold concept is more to symbolize that it means nothing compared to God, and the posettions we own on Earth are nothing compared to what will be in heaven, since it will be used as pavement, were people to walk all over on.

And think of how well it conducts electricity, the streets might also be used for the electric infrastructure. Just need 2 layers seperated by non conductive material (diamonds? lol)

LOL @ Your entire post!

#1. Having Babies??? WTF? Anyone who remains on this planet after 7 years of satan rule and 1000 years of god rule gets to see the city of heaven. Right? So once satan takes over, perhaps those people's great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandchildren might get to see heaven?

#2. If gold means nothing in heaven, why would there be gold in heaven??? You're right, the possession we have on earth will be nothing compared to the things in heaven. So what would be the purpose of having gold streets in heaven??? Gold will have no significance, no value, no meaning to us nor God nor the angels nor anyone nor anything in heaven, so why would it be there? It doesn't make any sense. Seems pretty stupid to me.

#3. Electricity? LMFAO! You can't be serious right? Tell me your joking. I'd honestly just assume you were, but I've heard you say some pretty far-fetched things before Red. Do you really think there will be a need for electricity in heaven?

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:04 pm

1) Obviously someone who lives during the 7 years will be too old to live till the end of 1000, that's just plain obvious. But even though the times will be harsh in those 7 years there may still be some who manage to have kids.

2) What would you rather, gold, or just normal pavement?! Gold was chosen for a reason, it's not really mentioned, at least I never read it, but there must be a reason behind it.

3) Obviously I was joking, who will need electricity in heaven.

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shenbaw · Post by **shenbaw** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 5:44 pm

Red Squirrel wrote: 2) What would you rather, gold, or just normal pavement?! Gold was chosen for a reason, it's not really mentioned, at least I never read it, but there must be a reason behind it.

3) Obviously I was joking, who will need electricity in heaven.

Probably the same people who will have a need for "pavement" in heaven.

Sometimes I seriously wonder about you Red.

We wouldn't have any more need for pavement in heaven than we would for electricity. And if we did, I can honestly say to you right now I know I wouldn't give a flyin' fuk if it were normal pavement or gold or silver or plutonium or diamond incrusted gold plated silver with a plutonium core for that matter. I'm in heaven, I don't care what type of material "my feet" are supported by.

You're right, Gold was chosen for a reason. But it wasn't God's reason, it was man's reason. And that reason is because it was the most precious and most valuable material known to man when that part of the Bible was written. That's it. No other reason. The author (interpreter) of that part of the Bible wanted to describe heaven in the most spectacular and awesome way humanly possible so that others could grasp some kind of conception of what heaven may possibly be like, so he came up with the most spectacular and awesome material know to man at the time and coated the "streets" with it. If heaven is this spiritually perfect place where we can be with God for all eternity, why would we still be confined to the limitations of our earthly bodies? Do you honestly think we would have to walk to wherever we needed to be at the time? If heaven is a 15,000 mile long city, what if God is on the other end of town when we need to see him? It would take us like months to walk those golden streets to get to him/her. That doesn't seem very perfect to me.

Think outside the box Red.

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 8:02 pm

shenbaw wrote:
Red Squirrel wrote: 2) What would you rather, gold, or just normal pavement?! Gold was chosen for a reason, it's not really mentioned, at least I never read it, but there must be a reason behind it.

3) Obviously I was joking, who will need electricity in heaven.
Probably the same people who will have a need for "pavement" in heaven.

Sometimes I seriously wonder about you Red.

I've been wondering about you for much longer. I never met a person who rather burn in hell instead of learning more about a better place and accept the way things are. Being used to under 0 temps, I'm sure glad I'm not going to hell.

We wouldn't have any more need for pavement in heaven than we would for electricity. And if we did, I can honestly say to you right now I know I wouldn't give a flyin' fuk if it were normal pavement or gold or silver or plutonium or diamond incrusted gold plated silver with a plutonium core for that matter. I'm in heaven, I don't care what type of material "my feet" are supported by.

You're right, Gold was chosen for a reason. But it wasn't God's reason, it was man's reason. And that reason is because it was the most precious and most valuable material known to man when that part of the Bible was written. That's it. No other reason. The author (interpreter) of that part of the Bible wanted to describe heaven in the most spectacular and awesome way humanly possible so that others could grasp some kind of conception of what heaven may possibly be like, so he came up with the most spectacular and awesome material know to man at the time and coated the "streets" with it. If heaven is this spiritually perfect place where we can be with God for all eternity, why would we still be confined to the limitations of our earthly bodies? Do you honestly think we would have to walk to wherever we needed to be at the time? If heaven is a 15,000 mile long city, what if God is on the other end of town when we need to see him? It would take us like months to walk those golden streets to get to him/her. That doesn't seem very perfect to me.

That's a bunch of BS right there. Just shows how you don't understand it at all. Maybe you should actually buy and read a Bible before you make statements like this.

Think outside the box Red.

Been there done that, you're the one who rejects everything. Not sure if I've said it before but I'm saying it now, with an attitude like your's you're going to burn in hell. Sad but true, that so many people in this world reject the gospel, die, and burn in hell for ethernity.

But that said, it's not like you're ever going to get to see heaven so it's not like it should be something you're so concerned about. I can't shove the gospel down your throat.

It took God 6 days to make the entire universe, and he's still preparing a place for everyone individually to this day - wether it has streets of gold or streets of uranium I can't wait to see it, and see God, who will be the #1 attraction there, anyway. God is the most important part, the materialistic part is only an addition. If it is uranium, I just hope our new bodies will be immune to radiation.

But based on the giant cube city it will be streets of gold. From what I figure the new jerusalem is basically a small model of heaven. That's my guess.

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shenbaw · Post by **shenbaw** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:44 am

Red Squirrel wrote: That's a bunch of BS right there. Just shows how you don't understand it at all. Maybe you should actually buy and read a Bible before you make statements like this.

Been there done that.

Red, you don't know me. Don't pretend like you do. I've probably read the Bible just as many if not more times cover to cover than you have. (i used to get pissed as hell when someone would set something on top of the Bible when i was a kid, imagine that?

)

I also find it funny that my reason for the use of gold in the Bible is reflective of and based on reality at the time the Bible was written. It's a realistic and understandable reason for the use of "Gold covered streets." While yours consists of...

-> Gold was chosen for a reason, it's not really mentioned, at least I never read it, but there must be a reason behind it.[/quote wrote:(in essense "There's a reason, we just don't know what it is") Yet you have the audacity to call mine "BS." Wake up Red. You're diluting yourself.
<!--QuoteBegin-Red Squirrel] Been there done that, you're the one who rejects everything. Not sure if I've said it before but I'm saying it now, with an attitude like your's you're going to burn in hell. Sad but true, that so many people in this world reject the gospel, die, and burn in hell for ethernity. But that said, it's not like you're ever going to get to see heaven so it's not like it should be something you're so concerned about.

Red, that's the only thing you keep saying!!! Which is the reason sintek is telling you that you'd make a great televangelist. Cause all you do is try and scare people and consistently refuse to recognize the fact that what you are saying is simply a bunch of dogmatic shite. There's no substance to anything you say when it comes to religion. You just repeat the crap you were taught and brought up to believe and expect others to accept it as the ultimate truth. Well I got news for ya buddy, IT'S NOT! As someone said earlier, religion is a personal thing. You are not the authority on who is going to heaven and who is going to hell. And for the record, niether is your pastor or your mother or the church you go to or the fuking pope for that matter. "God" is. (if that's what you want to call it) That's it. No one else. Just because I don't take the Bible at face value and believe every piece of information it contains does not mean that I'm going to hell and you're a self-righteous, arrogant, bigot for even saying it.

I've been coming accross people like you my entire life Red and probably will come across people like you for the rest of it as well. Hell, I grew up with a bunch of 'em. And you know, the most church-going, God-fearing people I knew as a kid were also the most intolerant, judgemental, asshols I ever knew. The thing is Red, I always walk away from exchanges or conversations like this with one thing going through my mind and that is, If you are an example of what a good Christian is (an intolerant and self-righteous prick), I don't think I want to be one. And to be perfectly honest, I'm almost ashamed to have been brought up as one. Sad, but true.

Red Squirrel wrote: It took God 6 days to make the entire universe, and he's still preparing a place for everyone individually to this day - wether it has streets of gold or streets of uranium I can't wait to see it, and see God, who will be the #1 attraction there, anyway. God is the most important part, the materialistic part is only an addition. If it is uranium, I just hope our new bodies will be immune to radiation. But based on the giant cube city it will be streets of gold. From what I figure the new jerusalem is basically a small model of heaven. That's my guess.

Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah.

Salvation isn't contained in a church Red. Nor is it contained in a book nor was it hung on a cross thousands of years ago. It's contained within each and every individual's soul and can only be changed or influenced by the way you live your life. You can't tell me that a man can ask Jesus into his heart, ask for forgiveness for his sins and then go out and kill someone, kill themself and then have a free pass into heaven because they believe in the salvation of Jesus Christ. There is no "free pass to heaven." Not through Jesus, not through Allah, and not through Buddah. It has to do with you Red, not what organization you're a part and not what denomination you belong to. And unless you figure that out pretty quick, you're gonna be just as lost as you think I will be in the after-life.

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sintekk · Post by **sintekk** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 3:15 pm

Man, when Red tells god what you said here Shenbaw, he's going to be SOOOOOO pissed that you challenged his star pupil

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shenbaw · Post by **shenbaw** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:00 pm

sintekk wrote: Man, when Red tells god what you said here Shenbaw, he's going to be SOOOOOO pissed that you challenged his star pupil

Na, he's not challenged. He's just indignant.

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:04 pm

I don't have to tell God he already knows.

He'd probably tell me I'm not hard enough on you. Only if it was like the old days and God spoke directly to us. Why did adam and eve have to screw us over like that.

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shenbaw · Post by **shenbaw** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:07 pm

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:59 pm

LMAO

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shenbaw · Post by **shenbaw** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 9:40 pm

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sintekk · Post by **sintekk** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 9:56 pm

0_o

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:01 pm

I wish I had a camera that could take closeup pictures like that. It would be cool to make my own lego-animations

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sintekk · Post by **sintekk** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:02 pm

Red Squirrel wrote: I wish I had a camera that could take closeup pictures like that

You'd take pictures of Angry lego men looking for gay sex?

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