legalize "computer crime"

shenbaw · Post by **shenbaw** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 7:46 pm

Red Squirrel wrote: Ummm because God is the main reason, but you just reject Him so what can I do.

Ummm I'd like to point out, for the record, that to most people (maybe not you, Red), but to most people there is a difference between "Rejecting God" and "Rejecting an argument because it uses God as it's first and only premise."

P1: God says X is wrong.

C: Therefore, X is wrong.

Red Squirrel wrote: The onther reason, the one I still hold since before I was christian is because it simply is wrong. You don't need no scientific reason for something to be wrong, sometimes common sense is all it takes, but you don't have any of that so every single thing has to be backed up by years of research and I don't have the computing power to prove every single thing wrong against you.

No Red, the only thing good arguments require in my book is sound reasoning. For example, a good justification for the belief that murder is wrong, is that the act of murder infringes upon another person's right to live. Are you following me? A convincing answer to the question "Why is stealing wrong?" would be "Becuase that property does not belong to me, it belongs to the owner. Therefore, taking that property would be wrong because it would be infringing upon the owners rightful claim to that property." It's tough to comprehend, I know, but here's one more. A good argument to justify our modern laws against kidnapping would be because it infringes upon the kidnapped person's right to freedom and happiness. The kidnapper is violating the kidnapped person's undeniable right to have free will, therefore this act is consequently deemed to be wrong. Are you still with me Red?

So where's the damage Red? Besides within the souls of the damned? You give me one good argument against homosexuality or smoking pot like one of these above, and I'm with ya all the way!

But again, your argument can't mention God or sin or the Bible, and you must give reason other than it is wrong.

Again, in the case of pot, the long term physical effects are apparent, but isn't it the case that in today's society we are given the freedom and the liberty to inflict some amount of damage to ourselves (i.e. cigarettes, alcohol, fast food) and we're not thrown in jail for that? Do we really want to start legislating health? If so, you can leave pot out of your argument.

Red Squirrel wrote: But it's ok, since judgement day is coming anyway, so how about we wait till then to see who's right.

Is intimidation really that appropriate in an inernet forum?

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 9:19 pm

Not like it really matters because you'll pull off some science mumbo jumbo to try and prove it all wrong... some of it is "offending" (God related) but that simply stands as a fact, that God made us, and it's(gay marriage) wrong.

Most gays are depressed:
http://www.healthyplace.com/Communities/Ge...n_community.htm

---------

Summary: Recent studies show homosexuals have a substantially greater risk of suffering from

a psychiatric problems than do heterosexuals. We see higher rates of suicide, depression,

bulimia, antisocial personality disorder, and substance abuse. This paper highlights some

new and significant considerations that reflect on the question of those mental illnesses

and on their possible sources.
http://www.healthyplace.com/Communities/Ge...al_problems.htm

---------

homosexuality damages our way of life:
http://www.statesmanjournal.com/apps/pbcs....INION/412010306

---------

Homosexuality affects public health 80% OF AIDS CASES IS HOMOS:
http://www.homosexuellt.com/infosida/show_...le.asp?Idnr=207

---------

Homosexuality and animals. "they do it so it's ok for us" is wrong.
-- "Homosexual" Animals Do Not Exist

In 1996, homosexual scientist Simon LeVay admitted that the evidence pointed to isolated

acts, not to homosexuality:

Although homosexual behavior is very common in the animal world, it seems to be very

uncommon that individual animals have a long-lasting predisposition to engage in such

behavior to the exclusion of heterosexual activities. Thus, a homosexual orientation, if one

can speak of such thing in animals, seems to be a rarity.[11]

Despite the "homosexual" appearances of some animal behavior, this behavior does not stem

from a "homosexual" instinct that is part of animal nature. Dr. Antonio Pardo, Professor of

Bioethics at the University of Navarre, Spain, explains:

Properly speaking, homosexuality does not exist among animals.... For reasons of

survival, the reproductive instinct among animals is always directed towards an individual

of the opposite sex. Therefore, an animal can never be homosexual as such. Nevertheless, the

interaction of other instincts (particularly dominance) can result in behavior that appears

to be homosexual. Such behavior cannot be equated with an animal homosexuality. All it means

is that animal sexual behavior encompasses aspects beyond that of reproduction.[12]

http://www.narth.com/docs/animalmyth.html

---------

Dr. Phill critisized on his views on homosexuality
http://www.narth.com/docs/drphil.html

---------

Oops this slipped in... just replace God with big bang if you really want to

http://www.truthwalk.com/Feedback/homosexuality2.html

---------

You're not born gay, and other myths
http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/homomyth.html

---------

What's wrong? A whole lot of things. Oopsies, again I slipped and pointed to another

offending site.
http://www.raptureready.com/faq/faq11.html

---------

Skip the offensive part for more details.
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c040.html

---------

More offensive stuff - sorry can't help it but this one is less offending but rather

comforting
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-dml/dml-y023.html

---------

VERY offensive, but I like it.

http://www.seafox.com/homos.html

---------

Funny forum thread... and you though I was harsh against homies? I don't agree 100% with

what is said but it comes to show I'm not the only one that thinks it's wrong. (you should

go join that forum...)
http://www.google.ca/search?q=cache:ovfR3m...ead.php%3Ft%3D1

58480+homosexuality++wrong+-god+-bible+-christian&hl=en

(you need to signup for the actual one:http://www.gamingforums.com/showthread.php?t=158480)

--------------

And that's my final post on this subject... I said that before but now I really mean it.

I'll let judgement day deal with the issue.

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sintekk · Post by **sintekk** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:03 pm

I thought this was hillarious: The gay suicide rate is because of intolerant people like you red

http://www.healthyplace.com/Communities/Ge...n_community.htm

The report that shows that 80% of gays have aids is a tad old:
"U.S. Department of Health and Human Services -- Centers for Disease Control. "HIV/AIDS Surveillance Report." July 1993 Vol. 5 No. 2."
http://www.homosexuellt.com/infosida/show_...le.asp?Idnr=207

This link is an opinion editorial:
http://www.statesmanjournal.com/apps/pbcs....INION/412010306

As for the Narth Links:
http://www.shame.org/detail.html?214

As for the LeaderU links:
http://www.leaderu.com/menus/aboutus.html
"Christian Leadership Ministries" No wonder they don't like gays

http://www.google.ca/search?q=cache:ovfR3m...ead.php%3Ft%3D1
Some of those people scare me

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MrSelf · Post by **MrSelf** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:37 pm

I like ya more and more sintekk

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sintekk · Post by **sintekk** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:46 pm

MrSelf wrote: I like ya more and more sintekk

Well, you and Shenbaw are good influences

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manadren · Post by **manadren** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 11:30 pm

sooo.. the gay thread turned into an evolution thread, and the hacking thread turned into a gay thread. So here's the real question, will we have an evolution thread that turns into a hacking thread to bring it full circle? Or will the pot thread get thrown into the mix?

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sintekk · Post by **sintekk** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 11:36 pm

manadren wrote: sooo.. the gay thread turned into an evolution thread, and the hacking thread turned into a gay thread. So here's the real question, will we have an evolution thread that turns into a hacking thread to bring it full circle? Or will the pot thread get thrown into the mix?

Or, to really mix it up, a debate about American made cars vs Foreign cars... that'll confuse them!

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shenbaw · Post by **shenbaw** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 10:32 am

Red Squirrel wrote: Not like it really matters because you'll pull off some science mumbo jumbo to try and prove it all wrong... some of it is "offending" (God related) but that simply stands as a fact, that God made us, and it's wrong.

Red, I'm not offended by God. I simply find him/her unconvincing.

Which means I find most of your supporting links unconvincing as well. At least the ones written by religious organizations or based on God in some way.

Do you have a hard time following directions in school Red? It's really not that difficult a concept. All it would really take is you explaining what direct negative effects a gay person has on another individual or our society as a whole, besides being responsible for the "moral" decay of our society. Oh, and just becuase Clarence Haverland says so doesn't count either. It's interesting that I specifically showed you how an argument can be made in two or three very clear and consise sentences and you proceeded to leave us with thirteen or fourteen different links and numerous quotes evidencing how homosexuality isn't "normal" in human beings. I don't care if it's "normal" for you or your cat or the monkeys at the zoo, I wanted to know how you know it's wrong.

But as you've pointed out, that was your last post on the matter, so I guess we'll never be blessed with the true knowledge of the righteous. Thanks for the smoke-screen though Red, it's fun to see the kind of crap you flood your head with up there in the tundra.

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sintekk · Post by **sintekk** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 10:35 am

shenbaw wrote: Thanks for the smoke-screen though Red, it's fun to see the kind of crap you flood your head with up there in the tundra.

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shenbaw · Post by **shenbaw** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 10:47 am

Hello, Hello, Hello...
Is there anybody in there?
Just nod if you can hear me.
Is there anyone home?

Come on, now.
I hear you’re feeling down.
Well I can ease your pain,
Get you on your feet again.

Relax.
I need some information first.
Just the basic facts:
Can you show me where it hurts?

There is no pain, you are receding.
A distant ship’s smoke on the horizon.
You are only coming through in waves.
Your lips move but I can’t hear what you’re sayin’.
When I was a child I had a fever.
My hands felt just like two balloons.
Now I got that feeling once again.
I can’t explain, you would not understand.
This is not how I am.
Re-e-e-e-ed has become comfortably numb.

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sintekk · Post by **sintekk** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 11:59 am

shenbaw wrote: Re-e-e-e-ed has become comfortably numb.

Pink Floyd... good times, good times

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Bookworm · Post by **Bookworm** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:45 pm

I find it interesting that the only definitions of wrong that are currently being allowed in this thread are those in which an individual or society is being harmed. Suppose you are invited to a very formal dinner engagement, and you put your elbows on the table and use the wrong forks. You may not be hurting anyone, but you are acting wrongly if you are breaking the rules of ettiquette in that situation. Granted, you may not agree with the rules of ettiquette, but are you going to accuse them of being narrowminded or ignorant if they tell you you should take your elbows off the table? I realize that the rules of ettiquette may not apply in every situation, but for those of us who believe that the Word of God is a valid standard for living, we ARE going to apply it to every area of life. The problem I have with the way Red posts sometimes is that he tries to shove the Bible down people's throats rather than presenting it on a plate with a garnish of graceful speech.

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shenbaw · Post by **shenbaw** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:32 pm

Bookworm wrote: I find it interesting that the only definitions of wrong that are currently being allowed in this thread are those in which an individual or society is being harmed. Suppose you are invited to a very formal dinner engagement, and you put your elbows on the table and use the wrong forks. You may not be hurting anyone, but you are acting wrongly if you are breaking the rules of ettiquette in that situation. Granted, you may not agree with the rules of ettiquette, but are you going to accuse them of being narrowminded or ignorant if they tell you you should take your elbows off the table? I realize that the rules of ettiquette may not apply in every situation, but for those of us who believe that the Word of God is a valid standard for living, we ARE going to apply it to every area of life. The problem I have with the way Red posts sometimes is that he tries to shove the Bible down people's throats rather than presenting it on a plate with a garnish of graceful speech.

I'd thought you'd maybe chime in sometime. In case you haven't been paying attention Bookworm, we've been discussing the legality of certain types of actions and behavior. Our friend Red "sarcastically" claimed that computer hacking should be legal because it's not nearly as bad as smoking pot or being gay and lots of places are making those things legal. Unfortunately he's been unable to come up with an argument why homosexuality and pot should be outlawed without bringing the words "God" or "sin" or "Bible" into it. You see, the reason we make things illegal in our modern society is for the most part, because they cause some type of negative effect or harm to individuals or society as a whole. Have you ever noticed how if you did happen to be at a formal dinner party and you put your elbows on the table, no one called the cops or threw you in jail? That's because we don't have any laws against putting our elbows on the table. Why don't we have any laws against putting our elbows on the table at formal dinner parties? Because in the eyes of the law, there is nothing inherently wrong about putting one's elbows on the dinner table. Our law makers have determined that putting your elbows on the dinner table doesn't hurt you, it doesn't hurt your hosts, and it doesn't cause any sort of negative repercussions on our society as a whole, therefore, it is within the law to put our elbows on dinner tables. If anything, it may upset your hosts, but they can always just throw you out of their party can't they? I can unwaiveringly tell you that if someone threatened to put me in jail or to have me arrested for putting my elbows on the dinner table, I would indeed "accuse them of being narrowminded and ignorant."

Maybe you and Red could work together to come up with a reason? I think Red's sick of trying on his own.

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FloodG8-9595 · Post by **FloodG8-9595** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:14 pm

+1 and

to the last few posts made by Shenbaw, Sintekk, Stasi, Mr Self n company.

I don't think I can chime in any more on the Gay subject because my posts become legnthy in that regard not to mention a bit more agressive than I intend them to come out and I get lost in a trail of contrived theory and large mispelled words

Pot is an unfortunate casualty of the disinformation age and the war on drugs.
Things like "Pot is a gateway drug" were laughable enough but, "Pot will make you have a baby" was my favorite. or how about "Pot will make you run over children and or old people." The fact is that not enough unbias study has been done to know the true affects that Pot has. Some studys link THC (Delta9-Tetra-Hydro-Canibinol) or the active ingidiant in Pot. To certain positive mental and physical affects such as the creation of new nural pathways. I don't know enough about said studys to comment furhter.

I'll try to post it later if I can find it or someone else will do it.

I would join in the crowd who would love to hear a reason for illegality from Red with the afore mentioned stipulations.

"Jerry Falwell is crazy and if you didn't know that already I wan't you to wear tinfoil on your head so we know who you are" -Lewis Black

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sintekk · Post by **sintekk** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:32 pm

FloodG8-9595 wrote: large mispelled words

That brings up something that's been on my mind....
What the hell is a Gigliorononomicon?

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Bookworm · Post by **Bookworm** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:42 pm

shenbaw wrote:
Bookworm wrote: I find it interesting that the only definitions of wrong that are currently being allowed in this thread are those in which an individual or society is being harmed. Suppose you are invited to a very formal dinner engagement, and you put your elbows on the table and use the wrong forks. You may not be hurting anyone, but you are acting wrongly if you are breaking the rules of ettiquette in that situation. Granted, you may not agree with the rules of ettiquette, but are you going to accuse them of being narrowminded or ignorant if they tell you you should take your elbows off the table? I realize that the rules of ettiquette may not apply in every situation, but for those of us who believe that the Word of God is a valid standard for living, we ARE going to apply it to every area of life. The problem I have with the way Red posts sometimes is that he tries to shove the Bible down people's throats rather than presenting it on a plate with a garnish of graceful speech.
I'd thought you'd maybe chime in sometime. In case you haven't been paying attention Bookworm, we've been discussing the legality of certain types of actions and behavior. Our friend Red "sarcastically" claimed that computer hacking should be legal because it's not nearly as bad as smoking pot or being gay and lots of places are making those things legal. Unfortunately he's been unable to come up with an argument why homosexuality and pot should be outlawed without bringing the words "God" or "sin" or "Bible" into it. You see, the reason we make things illegal in our modern society is for the most part, because they cause some type of negative effect or harm to individuals or society as a whole. Have you ever noticed how if you did happen to be at a formal dinner party and you put your elbows on the table, no one called the cops or threw you in jail? That's because we don't have any laws against putting our elbows on the table. Why don't we have any laws against putting our elbows on the table at formal dinner parties? Because in the eyes of the law, there is nothing inherently wrong about putting one's elbows on the dinner table. Our law makers have determined that putting your elbows on the dinner table doesn't hurt you, it doesn't hurt your hosts, and it doesn't cause any sort of negative repercussions on our society as a whole, therefore, it is within the law to put our elbows on dinner tables. If anything, it may upset your hosts, but they can always just throw you out of their party can't they? I can unwaiveringly tell you that if someone threatened to put me in jail or to have me arrested for putting my elbows on the dinner table, I would indeed "accuse them of being narrowminded and ignorant."

Maybe you and Red could work together to come up with a reason? I think Red's sick of trying on his own.

Excellent job of breaking down my ettiquette illustration. I'll keep thinking.

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MrSelf · Post by **MrSelf** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:22 pm

sintekk wrote:
FloodG8-9595 wrote: large mispelled words

That brings up something that's been on my mind....
What the hell is a Gigliorononomicon?

Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday Sunday.....

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FloodG8-9595 · Post by **FloodG8-9595** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:24 pm

sintekk wrote:
FloodG8-9595 wrote: large mispelled words

That brings up something that's been on my mind....
What the hell is a Gigliorononomicon?

Ok... thats a long story so let me ask. Have you ever watched Aqua Teen Hunger Force?

An Epic (for an 11 min cartoon) Episode entitled "The Last One (of 2003)" involves a majority of the "villians" or "antagonists" to the Aqua Teens being at a meeting on the moon rallied by the viciously ill-mannered Mooninites with the concept of "bruising their asses" by driving a "screw of damnation" into their brains while telling to to stay still. Chaos insues as other plans surface. The Mooninites soon realize that they have yet to choose a "Rad name". They eventualy settle on the quotable "Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday Sunday." but amound other suggestions were "Super awsome villans forever", "The midnighters" and my favorite "Gigliorononomicon" which was offered to the Mooninites by the avatar worthy Ghost of Christmas Past from the Future.

whew... what a long and off topic post. Not to mention most of the information is pointless and I could have made this a little easier by just saying

"It's from a Cartoon on [adult swim] called Aqua Teen Hunger Force"

but as we have established that just wouldnt be my style...

Karate Explosion...

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sintekk · Post by **sintekk** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:28 pm

That clears that up, thanks!

I've never seen that show, heard it was funny but I don't have cable.
I'm just glad that Family Guy is coming back to Fox in 2005.

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FloodG8-9595 · Post by **FloodG8-9595** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:30 pm

sintekk wrote: That clears that up, thanks!

I've never seen that show, heard it was funny but I don't have cable.
I'm just glad that Family Guy is coming back to Fox in 2005.

me too... just so you know the seasons of most Adult Swim cartoon are only 25 bucks and well worth picking up if you have the extra cash...

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sintekk · Post by **sintekk** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:33 pm

Sadly, most of my extra cash is being saved up for a copy of World of Warcraft and it's $30 for two months

Erm, anyway, back to the original offtopic topic...

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FloodG8-9595 · Post by **FloodG8-9595** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:38 pm

sintekk wrote: Sadly, most of my extra cash is being saved up for a copy of World of Warcraft and it's $30 for two months

Erm, anyway, back to the original offtopic topic...

yes.. Homosexuality or was it computer crime?... or was it pot?.. or damnit... Did the flood happen were there gay people on the ark? Was the ark a vicim of hacking and were they too high to care? Could the world flood if all the gays renounced their ways and tried to get babtised in the same instant? Did I have to smoke pot to come up with this?

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sintekk · Post by **sintekk** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:48 pm

Weren't we talking about Computer Crime perpetuated by High Gay guys?

No, that wasn't it....

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:58 pm

shenbaw wrote: Red, it's fun to see the kind of crap you flood your head with up there in the tundra.

American geographic knowledge never ceases to amuse me. I don't even think they have internet in the tundra. LOL. Temps there are about the same as winter here, but the problem is there's hardly any snow which probably explains the permafrost. The ground is frozen all year round instead of about half the year so it makes the possibility of any infrastructure very hard to impliment, but I suppose it's possible with proper equipment and at some point part of the ground slightly defrosts.

And if you want to call Biblical belief crap, well that's gona catch up some day, hopefully you will realize you're going in the wrong direction before the time comes. The path that leads to destruction is broad and easy to find but the path that leads to life is narrow and few find it.... I'm glad I did.

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MrSelf · Post by **MrSelf** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:06 pm

Bookworm wrote:
shenbaw wrote:
Bookworm wrote: snip...
snip....

Excellent job of breaking down my ettiquette illustration. I'll keep thinking.

50 points to everyone

But yes, I agree with shenbaw. There are reasons for rules. The root of not putting your elbows on the table stems from keeping people from knocking stuff over and crowding others. It is a simple matter of respect, in order for everyone to have the most pleasant meal possible everyone agrees to certain rules to make it more effecient. By yourself, it does not matter.

My elbows on the table at my house, not an issue.
My elbows on the table with company, rude unless you have permission.

Again, rules exist for a reason, to better the whole is the usual reason, but at times we need to be wary of rules for the sake of power over others. I want to address the issue of homosexuality hurting your family now.

It seems obvious to me that there is no direct hurt involved, no physical pain of sorts, so that leaves only mental anguish. It is ever so easy to get caught in feelings, especially disappointment. One can easily see how easy it would be to become upset if homosexuality was thrown in your face every moment (from a parents perspective, your son making out with him boyfriend in front of you all the time) and you were not exactly okay with it. However, if the person was respectful enough not to force it upon you, what problem is there, other than your personal feelings on the matter? It bothers me just as much to see a male and female making out in public, I don't want to see that from anyone, keep it to yourself. Assuming there is no extreme behaviour, the only problems that could be taken to negatively affect family are all personal problems of the family members themselves. Mom and Dad upset your gay? Too bad they're not big enough people to look past that, it's really only that person's business (assuming they are an adult). How else can it affect family negatively that the family would be proper in blaming the son? If you've got any, I'd like to hear them. I've found that they are always personal problem that the individual family members need to get over.

How about marijuana? By yourself, you are only affecting yourself. It is actually less dangerous that alcohol(both in side effects and chemical-long term exposure), has never ever been attributed to a single death from overdosage, and is formed in nature (for those of you that believe for some reason that nature is pure, nature has not once blinked as it extincts plants and animals).

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