Farenheit 9/11

Raptomex · Post by **Raptomex** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 11:02 pm

Fahrenheit 9/11 isn't necessarily a great film, and it's not particularly entertaining unless you're someone who wakes up early on Sunday to watch the political shows. It is a well done though somewhat pointed documentary, and Moore's ability to find and assemble vast amounts of data and information and spin them into his own personal one-man anti-Bush propaganda is impressive. Still, the movie doesn't leave you thinking that Bush is bad or evil, as the media might have you believe, but it does create a powerful message that WAR is bad and that maybe our beloved leader isn't exactly the best person to be deciding when and with whom we should be waging it. Whether or not you agree with Moore's opinion or his interpretation of the data isn't as important as the way it takes an intensive look at the state of our government. For that alone, it demands to be seen by every American.

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Chris Vogel · Post by **Chris Vogel** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 11:10 pm

It isn’t very nice to quote people without stating the source, monsieur…

Anyway, it does seem like something worth seeing.

I’ve seen a bit on the news. The media suggests that the facts have been twisted a bit. I wouldn’t be surprised, and that’s hopefully the case since I like seeing people twist the facts.

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 11:11 pm

I want to see it, I did not even know it was out yet. But I don't think it's out here yet though. Saw previews and it seems like a good movie.

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VictorEM83 · Post by **VictorEM83** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 11:11 pm

I dont care for micheal moore he morphs things into what he wants you to see the facts are far fetched like in bowling for columbine he is so far off base its not even funny. He rather have us like the EU rude, stuck up people who think they are above everyone to the point that they are to good to help.

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Raptomex · Post by **Raptomex** » Tue Jun 29, 2004 11:18 am

I heard from many people it isn't really a great movie. Some people said it's not that accurate either.

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MrSelf · Post by **MrSelf** » Tue Jun 29, 2004 2:20 pm

Digital Scyther wrote: Fahrenheit 9/11 isn't necessarily a great film, and it's not particularly entertaining unless you're someone who wakes up early on Sunday to watch the political shows. It is a well done though somewhat pointed documentary, and Moore's ability to find and assemble vast amounts of data and information and spin them into his own personal one-man anti-Bush propaganda is impressive. Still, the movie doesn't leave you thinking that Bush is bad or evil, as the media might have you believe, but it does create a powerful message that WAR is bad and that maybe our beloved leader isn't exactly the best person to be deciding when and with whom we should be waging it. Whether or not you agree with Moore's opinion or his interpretation of the data isn't as important as the way it takes an intensive look at the state of our government. For that alone, it demands to be seen by every American.

I tend to agree. I've though Moores films were never as "propagandic" as the media would have us believe, only if you mis-interpret the message. They do give some information that would otherwise have gone un-noticed.

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fragged one · Post by **fragged one** » Tue Jun 29, 2004 2:37 pm

MrSelf wrote: I tend to agree. I've though Moores films were never as "propagandic" as the media would have us believe, only if you mis-interpret the message. They do give some information that would otherwise have gone un-noticed.

what information did you get from 'bowling for columbine'?

i haven't seen roger & me, but it seems a bit interesting, and i also haven't seen the big one, but i did see canadian bacon!

anyway...bowling for columbine was a waste of film reel. it wasn't a documentery, it was a 'let me twist everything around to fit how i think you should see it as-entery'.

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MrSelf · Post by **MrSelf** » Tue Jun 29, 2004 2:59 pm

Then you might need to check your eyes, the information was interesting if nothing else. To see the difference in attitudes on guns and regulations, the information on Canada and its guns, different peoples opinions, lots more. It was interesting. Yes, Moore went too far sometimes, no, it isn't some movie with all new amazing information, yes, its obvious what his opinion is. But to claim all the information is horribly off and of no interest is false. I think you and others overestimate it's importance. It's much more social commentary than political.

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MrSelf · Post by **MrSelf** » Tue Jun 29, 2004 3:00 pm

Oh, and uh...

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fragged one · Post by **fragged one** » Tue Jun 29, 2004 3:06 pm

MrSelf wrote: Then you might need to check your eyes, the information was interesting if nothing else. To see the difference in attitudes on guns and regulations, the information on Canada and its guns, different peoples opinions, lots more. It was interesting. Yes, Moore went too far sometimes, no, it isn't some movie with all new amazing information, yes, its obvious what his opinion is. But to claim all the information is horribly off and of no interest is false. I think you and others overestimate it's importance. It's much more social commentary than political.

i never claimed all the information was horribly off, some of it was, but obviously not all. and yes, obviously the film had some interest, however, there was no new information in the film. there was no new opinion, except that of moore's, since that is, really, the only opinion conveyed by the dramagedy that he filmed.

social commentary? perhaps. comedy? more like it.

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MrSelf · Post by **MrSelf** » Tue Jun 29, 2004 3:18 pm

I found it very easy to discern Moore's ideology from the information; it did give me an insight to some areas, that when combined with other information I have, do make a difference. For example, his gun numbers.

The U.S. gun death number was enourmous!

Canada, on the other hand, has one of the lowest gun death rates in the world(his main compairison)

When you realize that America is like 50 mediums size coutries, it seems a bit more reasonable (divide number by 50)

However, even when divided by 50, the average is much higher than most countries. While his point may have been that the U.S. has way more gun-related deaths than most others, it's still obvious there is a problem of some sort, the current regulations are not working.

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Raptomex · Post by **Raptomex** » Tue Jun 29, 2004 3:20 pm

It's also more of a documentary. I'll wait until an actual movie comes out about 9/11.

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fragged one · Post by **fragged one** » Tue Jun 29, 2004 3:25 pm

MrSelf wrote: I found it very easy to discern Moore's ideology from the information; it did give me an insight to some areas, that when combined with other information I have, do make a difference. For example, his gun numbers.

The U.S. gun death number was enourmous!

Canada, on the other hand, has one of the lowest gun death rates in the world(his main compairison)

When you realize that America is like 50 mediums size coutries, it seems a bit more reasonable (divide number by 50)

However, even when divided by 50, the average is much higher than most countries. While his point may have been that the U.S. has way more gun-related deaths than most others, it's still obvious there is a problem of some sort, the current regulations are not working.

and you know, i'm not so sure that i disagree with michael moore's conclusion, that the us has more gun-related deaths than any other country, per capita.

but that wasn't anything new. not to me, anyway, and i thought it was common knowledge that the united states has some of the worst violent crime of anywhere, not just guns.

where he failed, was to even provide a thesis as to what, exactly, is wrong with our society to allow this, or to provide even an attempt at helping to solve the problem. yay for moore, he marched into kmart headquarters...he was using those kids for his own purpose...

i'm sorry, i didn't see any value in the movie, from an objective or subjective standpoint. one interesting fact, is that it had more false notions, lies, and half-truths than it did facts, and that discredits anything, imho.

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VictorEM83 · Post by **VictorEM83** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 1:13 am

Moore is a greenpeace tree hugging EU lover biotch. Our gun problem is simple we let dumb people with drug problems that cant contribute to anything but the crime rate live past the age of 21.

we give murders 5-7 years so they can do it again, look into the stats I bet a least half the gun problem is repeat offenders, that get 5 to 7 years each time. the problem is to many people care about the human rights of criminals when you take someone elses live you should lose all your human rights and that includes your one to live or if there is doubt in the case to freedom.

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Joe · Post by **Joe** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 1:23 am

VictorEM83 wrote: Moore is a greenpeace tree hugging EU lover biotch. Our gun problem is simple we let dumb people with drug problems that cant contribute to anything but the crime rate live past the age of 21.

we give murders 5-7 years so they can do it again, look into the stats I bet a least half the gun problem is repeat offenders, that get 5 to 7 years each time. the problem is to many people care about the human rights of criminals when you take someone elses live you should lose all your human rights and that includes your one to live or if there is doubt in the case to freedom.

Agree

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Joe · Post by **Joe** » Wed Jun 30, 2004 1:24 am

VictorEM83 wrote: I dont care for micheal moore he morphs things into what he wants you to see the facts are far fetched like in bowling for columbine he is so far off base its not even funny. He rather have us like the EU rude, stuck up people who think they are above everyone to the point that they are to good to help.

agree

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Raptomex · Post by **Raptomex** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 9:58 am

and you know, i'm not so sure that i disagree with michael moore's conclusion, that the us has more gun-related deaths than any other country, per capita.

I totally agree with that statement.

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fragged one · Post by **fragged one** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 10:00 am

Digital Scyther wrote: I totally agree with that statement.

how can you not? it's a statement of fact.

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shenbaw · Post by **shenbaw** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 10:20 am

I realize the man is a propagandist, but I just saw Farenheit 9/11 last night and the man's a damn good propagandist. Honestly, the fact that someone, no matter how politically right-winged or left-winged they are, is able to make a movie building that big of a case against our president and his friends from actual occurances and connections that even possibly exist is pretty sad in my opinion. I can see why some wouldn't like it, and I don't think it's necessarily a masterpiece or anything, but it's deffinitely worth all the hype it's getting. Has free speech ever been exercised more openly and more freely than the day a movie ripping our president apart starts setting records at the box office?

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 10:52 am

I think the gun problem is simple, and has a simple solution

1) what has already been said (not enough jail time, etc)

and

2) anyone can easly get one. Some of the killers would of did their act anyway, but some just do it for fun, and if it's too complicated to get a gun they just won't bother. (ex: the toronto drive by shooting type crime - that's all just for fun and games)

So the best solution would be to have stricter murderer sentances (for life) and more serious gun control. If they really want to make guns legal, they need to be stricter on who gets to buy one.

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shenbaw · Post by **shenbaw** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 11:04 am

Oh, yeah, Bowling for Columbine was pretty good too.

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 11:17 am

I'd have to actually see that, I only heard of it but never watched it lol. Do they actually give free guns at the bank?! lol that's the only part I heard about but not sure if it's just an analogy of some sort or if it's actualy that what they do. I'd have to see the whole thing.

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shenbaw · Post by **shenbaw** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 11:34 am

Bowling for Columbine is the Moore movie about the gun problem. With so much talk about guns on this thread I just assumed everyone had seen it. Yes, in rural northern Michigan they were giving away a free shotgun or rifle, don't remember which, if you opened up a bank account. Wouldn't surprise me if that were done in some parts of northern Minnesota as well.

In those parts of the country the only logical use for a gun is hunting animals, so they really don't think twice about giving them to anyone.

Farenheit 9/11 is the newer Moore movie. You should really get out and see it if you get a chance. Like I said, I realize it's not a masterpiece, and that he has a tendancy to put his spin on everything he does, but it's good, that's all I'll say.

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 12:06 pm

Well I usually don't care who makes a movie, I judge the movie by the movie itself and not who made it and weather or not it's 100% realistic but from the previews it does look pretty good and I do want to see it.

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fragged one · Post by **fragged one** » Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:50 pm

shenbaw wrote: Bowling for Columbine is the Moore movie about the gun problem. With so much talk about guns on this thread I just assumed everyone had seen it. Yes, in rural northern Michigan they were giving away a free shotgun or rifle, don't remember which, if you opened up a bank account. Wouldn't surprise me if that were done in some parts of northern Minnesota as well. In those parts of the country the only logical use for a gun is hunting animals, so they really don't think twice about giving them to anyone.

Farenheit 9/11 is the newer Moore movie. You should really get out and see it if you get a chance. Like I said, I realize it's not a masterpiece, and that he has a tendancy to put his spin on everything he does, but it's good, that's all I'll say.

but they *didn't* give him a free gun in the bank. it was set up beforehand.

this is the kind of

that moore does to make people believe that pigs actually fly:

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html
http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110003233

Forbes reports that an early scene in "Bowling" in which Mr. Moore tries to demonstrate how easy it is to obtain guns in America was staged. He goes to a small bank in Traverse City, Mich., that offers various inducements to open an account and claims "I put $1,000 in a long-term account, they did the background check, and, within an hour, I walked out with my new Weatherby," a rifle.

But Jan Jacobson, the bank employee who worked with Mr. Moore on his account, says that only happened because Mr. Moore's film company had worked for a month to stage the scene. "What happened at the bank was a prearranged thing," she says. The gun was brought from a gun dealer in another city, where it would normally have to be picked up. "Typically, you're looking at a week to 10 days waiting period," she says. Ms. Jacobson feels used: "He just portrayed us as backward hicks."

guys, don't get duped by moore like many simpletons out there. he's just playing on american's propensity for trust and ignorance.

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