Nuclear meltdown possible in Japan

Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:25 pm

This is getting scary. I figured they would end up getting it under control but that explosion really did not help things.

http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/16250

The Japanese government is now operating under the assumption that meltdowns are underway at two nuclear reactors. A government official added that as of yet, there are no indications of hazardous emissions of radioactive material into the atmosphere.

Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said that there is a "possibility" of a meltdown at the Fukushima Daiichi plant's No. 1 reactor, adding that, "It is inside the reactor. We can't see." He added that authorities are "assuming the possibility of a meltdown" at the facility's No. 3 reactor.

A nuclear meltdown is a catastrophic failure of the reactor core, wth potential for widespread radiation release.

Efforts to control the temperature of atomic material, by pumping in sea water and boron, are underway. Late Saturday, four people were hurt in an explosion.

Edano said that so far only a "minor level" of radiation has been released into the environment and that it came from a controlled release of radioactive steam. He insists that there have been no eaks yet. Edano added, "We do not believe it is harmful to human health."

About 180,000 people are being evacuated from within a 6 to 12 mile range of the Daiichi plant. This is in addition to the thousands who were evacuated earlier that live closer to the facility. 30,000 people were also evacuated from within a 10 kilometer range of the Fukushima Daiini plant in the same prefecture.

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Triple6_wild · Post by **Triple6_wild** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 1:40 am

Your late. Ive been keeping up since it started.

It would be horrible if those reactors blew on top of a quake and tsunami. Already had 2 disasters too many.

I did some reading on reactors and I'm not sure I understand how they work. Or rather "Stop" working. From what I understand rods are dropped in uranium(Solid?) to absorb or catch atoms but what I'm confused about is logically speaking you can't really get them all so the fusion reaction should continue until the fuel is used up. There is no way to stop it right? Wouldn't slowing the fuel mean it's going to last longer also?

Am I off here... I guess it would make very low heat but even still you would have to keep the coolant running until the fuel is completely gone and pumping in seawater is damaging to everything so how long does uranium last? If the rods start melting then they slowly become less effective and the fusion gets slightly hotter/repeat=meltdown?

Anyways ya best of luck goes out to japan

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:31 pm

From my understanding that's pretty much it, the rods are lowered or highered to control the amount of fission that the uranium is producing. When the rods are lowered it slows down the process, but does not stop it, you can't really stop it as it's just the nature of the uranium, it's always radiating. It still needs to be cooled too. If it does not get cooled, eventually the uranium actually liquifies, we're talking like over 1000C or something. At some point it will just melt through the reactor and into the ground, spread all over etc and it's just a huge environmental disaster considering the amount of radiation coming from there.

If they could somehow spit it in many pieces put it in containers and bring them far away, it would be about the only way to stop it, but for the amount of uranium that's probably not even close to being a viable possibility. Basically the more of it you have together, the bigger the reaction is.

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Triple6_wild · Post by **Triple6_wild** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:45 pm

Ok so how long are they going to be at risk? Pumping in sea water damaging to the equipment not to mention possible clogs because it won't be clean water and aftershocks means the only option could also fail.

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:41 pm

Yeah not too sure what happens next. Guess they have to keep working to fix the proper cooling system. At some point they will need to send in people or robots to fix the damage inside the core and cleanup, once they do get it under control. That's my guess anyway. They also need to get that roof fixed as it's letting some radiation out, but the inner shell inside the building is what is really the key. if that goes, they they are really screwed. From what I read it's like 12 inch thick stainless steel.

What I wonder is why they don't already have a system in place to relieve pressure. Guess that's another failsafe they'll have to think of. Perhaps it should be released directly in a vat of water to prevent an explosion. That water would then evaporate.

I think one of the issue is also they don't have power to power the cooling system, if that's all there is to it, then I don't get why they can't just fire up one of the proper working reactors to generate that power. But what do I know eh.

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Triple6_wild · Post by **Triple6_wild** » Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:17 pm

For power well the back up generators were taken out by the tsunami and they probably ran out of battery backup. But even still power can't be the issue? How long would it take to load up a generator"s" on a chopper"s" and fly em in. Theres gotta be generators in japan somewhere nearby and it wouldn't need to be anything to massive if a batteries setup could run it.

Firing up another core could be a bad idea with all the aftershocks and the fail safe's from that plant already gone. If the lines were taken out then getting power from another plant isn't gonna happen. But thinking about it, Power can't be the issue. They are pumping in sea water so power is there.

Wonder if they're pumping the sea water into the coolant system or elsewhere like building/core to aid in cooling on top of the normal coolant??

Edit: Link

"I am not aware of anyone using seawater to cool a reactor core before. They must be desperate to find water and the seawater was the only thing nearby," said Richard Meserve, former chairman of the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission and president of the Carnegie Institution, in an interview on Sunday.

Looks like no coolant left so it's liquid not power thats needed. My guess is pumping it into and out of the normal coolant system. Contaminated seawater/steam is a better option then complete meltdown?

Oh and as for the excess pressure it seems to work like a cars coolant system. Probably a tank to help with pressure as it builds and much like a car if it gets way to high it boils over and is released as steam as a last resort. In this case though it seems like a choice to release rather then a pressure valve.

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:26 pm

Looks like the reactor is unusable after they put sea water in it. I am guessing the water evaporating leaves a residue all over and contaminates everything. with the heat it's probably producing some chloride gases too. cant be good.

I'm starting to think this plant will be shutdown or totally rebuilt after they're done.

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Triple6_wild · Post by **Triple6_wild** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:02 pm

Salt=rust So ya the factory is dead for sure. Maybe they will move it off the coast when its done.

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:42 pm

Think they have to be on a coast due to the large need for water, especially in an emergency, but putting it on the other side of Japan might be safer.

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rovingcowboy · Post by **rovingcowboy** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 12:34 pm

the radiation cloud is to be over the coast of alaska tonight and move
with the jet stream down to ariazona then head back up to wisconson
then to canada, from there it is i think going to the east but where i don't
know.

so look out red you might become a rad squirrel...

or a glow in the dark squirrel and those type are rare cause the owl's can see
them really well.

don't want this to happen to ya

:insanelyhugeexplosion.gif:

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Triple6_wild · Post by **Triple6_wild** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:55 am

Nothing to panic about

I'll gladly sacrifice the US and Canada to help save japan.

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:48 am

I'm sure if they unleash Pikachu on that plant he'll bring things under control.

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Triple6_wild · Post by **Triple6_wild** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 5:54 pm

They need water also. (Donno the name of those ones) lol

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Fri Apr 01, 2011 7:44 pm

Wow they are going to extremes now! Quite incredible actually what will be involved here. They are not screwing around that's for sure. What I don't get is why they can't just park that pump somewhere instead of getting rid of it completely. Guess the cost to secure it would be more then what it's worth? 1.5mil is peanuts when it comes to a disaster like this.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/japan-buy...nk=MW_news_stmp

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) — The operator of the Fukushima nuclear power plant in Japan has purchased two truck-mounted concrete pumps from U.S. construction firms and is modifying them to pump water to cool the facility's damaged reactors.

If Fukushima operator Tokyo Electric Power Co. /quotes/comstock/64e!9501 (JP:9501 449.00, -17.00, -3.65%) /quotes/comstock/11i!tkec.y (TKECY 7.00, +1.18, +20.27%) decides to embed the reactors in concrete, as was done with the Chernobyl reactors in 1986, the pumps can be readapted for that task, the pumps’ manufacturer said Friday.

The Putzmeister 70Z pumps are the largest in the world, and there are only three in existence. They have a 230-foot articulating boon that can be controlled remotely from more than a mile away. It weighs 95 tons and has a list price of over $1.5 million.

Putzmeister

The Putzmeister 70Z will be used to help cool down damaged Fukushima reactors in Japan.

To get the pumps to Japan, they will be loaded onto the world’s largest jet plane, the Antonov An-225, of which there are only two in existence. Produced in Russia some 20 years ago, the planes have six engines each and a 290-foot wingspan — nearly the length of a football field — and can carry up to 200 tons, according to company that built the monster plane.

Afterwards the pumps will likely be scrapped due to radiation exposure.

The Fukushima power plant was damaged March 11 after a 9.0-magnitude earthquake set off a tsunami that drowned its back-up power supply. Officials have been fighting to cool the reactors since, and are currently debating whether to expand a 12-mile evacuation radius. Four of the facility’s six reactors are being cooled by temporary water-feed lines, fire extinguishers and a concrete pump. The other two reactors are in a cold shutdown.

The Putzmeister pumps are undergoing modification in California and South Carolina before being shipped, with arrival das early as April 11, said Putzmeister America marketing and services manager Kelly Blickle.
U.S. troops join Japan body search

Soldiers comb through piles of debris in earthquake and tsunami-devastated northeastern Japan in search of bodies.

After they arrive, it will take a couple of days to train its operators, who are already familiar with some of the company’s smaller pumps, Blickle said.

The pumps were purchased from Ashmore Concrete Contractors Inc. of August, Ga., and Associated Concrete Pumping of Sacramento, Calif., through Putzmeister.

The Putzmeister pumps were built in Germany. It was not immediately known whether there are additional 70Zs in production.

Christopher Hinton is a reporter for MarketWatch based in New York.

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