PVP publish proposal

DOCTOR THUNDER · Post by **DOCTOR THUNDER** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:43 pm

then play the game and get some good items. Dont just log in once in awhile and expect to have a suit that compares to the people who play the game all the time(and sometimes too much).

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E.Machine · Post by **E.Machine** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:36 pm

Honestly, being one of the most consumed by pvp players on this shard, I don't think anything can be changed. There isn't one template that I have fought where I feel it is utterly impossible to beat it.

Honestly, giving an HP cap would just make me even stronger. Hector has what... 180hp? I can drop him down to 50 HP in a reasonable amount of time. So you lower his HP to 125, and its like handing me the win.

I personally don't think you should nerf anything about pvp, caps or anything like that.

GET RID OF SOME ITEMS. If you didn't want people to have so much HP, why have so many items that offer HPI?

I really don't see that much of a problem with the HPI. I mean, I've got 128 hp i think, and thats just because my str is at 131, with maybe HPI4 on a piece of my runic armor, and with that I have no troubles fighting anyone.

It may just be because I don't like to complain. lol.

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dprantl · Post by **dprantl** » Sun Jun 10, 2007 11:52 pm

Finlander wrote:In my oppinion, nothign should ever be nerfed, but when proven that something is clearly better (which has not happened here since atleast i can be beaten by a mage) The opposite site should be boosten instead.

Hector how can you say this? Do you not remember your own words against the Apocalyptica?

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Finlander · Post by **Finlander** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:36 am

dprantl wrote:
Finlander wrote:In my oppinion, nothign should ever be nerfed, but when proven that something is clearly better (which has not happened here since atleast i can be beaten by a mage) The opposite site should be boosten instead.
Hector how can you say this? Do you not remember your own words against the Apocalyptica?

Now this is totaly off topic but as you brought this to it, i might aswell explain it to defend myself here.

As you know apocalyptica used to have 100hit spell including sc.
void got nerfed cause it was overpowered with the same amount of hitspell.

Apocalyptica also had sc.

Go figure.

And thats totaly irrelevant to this topic, lets keep this on topic.
And squirrel, by reeading your posts i get the feeling that you want to nerf the tanking thing and its the real issue instead of the hp.

Anyways we proved it last night that noone is overpowered in terms of pvp if they know what they are doing, you and brunus saw both the duel along with many players, oh let me correct myself, duel's.

So dont ingore that fact.

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Nosferatu · Post by **Nosferatu** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 8:10 am

Yeah well i fought a mage last night i have 122 hp on my archer and i was only hitting him for 19 a piece and all i had to heal myself was bandages i used no chiv or bushido at all and he was insta dping me with darts and bleeding me with fork and disarming me .. no one killed each other until i ran out of bandages. Imagine had i had 160+ hp it would have lasted forever we both got real close ill admit and i had to run a few times cuz couldnt chiv cure or remove curse for bleed but still the point is even below the presumable HP cap the fight was still very fun and fair. Had we both had 160 hp no one would have gotten close to killing each other

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Gaiava Arkkaza · Post by **Gaiava Arkkaza** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:33 am

Nothing was proven yesterday. Unique thing I saw was you getting disarmed and barely healing. The disarm I know it wanst you, but you sure as hell can time bandages better then the shit I watched yesterday.

But anyways, if you dont want to cap HP, we can do two things, first one is removing the items that give such HP (like Eby and Bartok suggested). The second one will probably get out of control, so Ill talk only with Squirrel about this one.

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Alvar · Post by **Alvar** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:56 am

I kept him poisoned? Constantly? That kinda fucks up his healing... kinda like mortal for mages.

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Gaiava Arkkaza · Post by **Gaiava Arkkaza** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:03 pm

Alvar wrote:I kept him poisoned? Constantly? That kinda fucks up his healing... kinda like mortal for mages.

Your poison was pretty much the unique to actually take effect. In fact, think you were the unique really trying to provide a good fight showing how to counter his healing.

In field he could use pots if he wanted, thats not a total block like mortal is. (though you can use SS for mortal, but not all mages have that)

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 1:08 pm

I just updated the proposal.

I think #2 for weapon damage would be the way to go, along with the hp cap.

Problem is, people here are too sensible, I have a feeling half the shard will leave if I balance it.

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Finlander · Post by **Finlander** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:24 pm

Well thats not a bad idea but thing is, youve already forced every archer to use mortal cause you miss so often.

Like runic bows are utterly useless if the mage knows what he is doing, he can outheal the damage really easily.

And afterall, pure archery should be enough to take something out in pvp, also it is fully offensive skill unlike magery.

But yeah that could be the way to go maybe

Anyways if you cap hp to 125, it means you can one combo dexxer.

If you do a cap, atleast make it 150-160, maybe the 150 would be better.
And no cap at all to stamina, cause there already is ss cap.

About mana, it needs a cap too.

Tho, i doubt any of the mages would be saying this same to me if they'd be the ones killing, cause most of the people here have the feeling that it should 70% of times be the dexxer whos dieing.

Instead of saying things like, hey hector good fight there you did good, they say fuck you "gimp" you got no skill and big head.

gg

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:46 pm

Yeah I'm not sure what to do with mana, I might actually cap it at like 150. With max lmc (which most mages have) it's like having way more anyway. Mana has never been an issue for me when I play a mage, unless I chain FSes in a pvm situation but even then its not too bad. Add necro to that and you're set really. FS something with low fire while in wraith form and get most of the mana back.

Stamina I can maybe cap it higher like think 170 would be good. Problem is, I don't want people to be able to 1.75 with like horselord or something, but then again, if I do the damage cap, won't really matter so maybe I can leave it uncapped, or for the sake of securing the future artifacts, I can just cap it really high, like 200.

HP I'm still debating. 150 is helluva high, maybe I can go like 130.

As for the aoa nerfs I want to bring all the lessers to a point where they compare with tots, maybe a tad better, but curently some compare to doom artys. A lot of lessers should be greaters, but there are already a lot of greaters, so I rather tone the existing lessers then make them greaters. I'm not sure how I'll approach global changing them. I could always add a "prepatch" title to them, and they will either be worth more, or get changed up with time, just not right away to give a chance to change up their suits. I just find currently its way too easy to make super ubber suits.

I don't like making changes to existing artys, but I think this will be needed, and hopefully the last one. I will try to come up with some kind of AoA guideline, so all AoAs will have to follow it, the ones that don't, will get changed.

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indust · Post by **indust** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:05 pm

Red Squirrel wrote:I just updated the proposal.

I think #2 for weapon damage would be the way to go, along with the hp cap.

Problem is, people here are too sensible, I have a feeling half the shard will leave if I balance it.

I dont think thats the case after they notice the impact of the change if it will come. And alot more players will come if and when they will hear that theres actually balance in pvp and pvm here..

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 3:30 pm

Yeah thats the thing, right now, its discouraging for new people to even try to pvp.

Just for kicks I checked, and in the whole shard, theres only about 4 people with over 150 hp. Theres about 20 with over 130. So think setting the cap to 130 is best bet, and will not affect that many people, and for PVM people, it will not be that much of an impact.

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Death · Post by **Death** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 4:41 pm

Each class should have a strength and a weakness. Maybe something along the lines of this:

Archer: Can shoot long range but like you suggested before, reduce their HCI as the range between attacker and defender increases. There's a lot of quick bows out there now with great specials and most archers can still use LS.

Warrior: Can hit a massive beating, but they have to be right next to their opponent to do any damage. Warriors/meleers should have the most powerful attacks because they are limited in range. The bows with UBWS are nice for a warrior, but really it's too much. I don't ever have to make an archer because I have a good bow with UBWS, hit lightning and DMI. Of course if you change this, you might consider making more mobs warrior friendly that can actually be melee'd safely.

Mage: Has long range/short range/curses you name it, but they fizzle and most have to stop to cast spells. Also, they can be interrupted easily and dot attacks work nicely on them. Their healing speed was toned down which was a great addition and spells like paralyze got fixed nicely so mages don't really need anything fixed compared to the others.

Tamers: This may have been fixed up but look at the pets they're using and think to yourself "Will this thing do 80 damage to somebody in one hit?". Tamers should have powerful pets but not to the extreme that somebody walks in and gets a 130 damage fireball. Pack instinct on pets should be used incredibly cautiously with a mad amount of testing.

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:55 pm

Yeah I was thinking about the UBW issue as well, it was put in for pvm but did not consider the dangerous effects it could have to pvp. Mind you a warrior with bow would still fall under the caps of archer. But what might be a better solution is remove from loot but maybe have a basic bow arty with UBWS specificly for pvm, something like a yumi with no ssi.

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:15 pm

I currently applied the damage cap as well as hp/stam/mana caps to the test server if anyone wants to go there and see how it is. I will soon proceed with arty nerfs as well - probably mostly AoAs, but this will be a huge task as each change has to be documented for when it comes to do the global edit. I'm also debating on if they are needed or not, since if I apply the caps, it might fix the problem on it's own, but we'll see.

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