Largest power outage recorded in the world

Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 8:49 pm

A power plant in NYC overloaded today and it affected even us here in the north. Most of north america was without power for quite a while, now they are slowly restoring power.

We were without power between 4:00 to 8:00 and we expected it to be much longer but I think Hydro One restored power from it's own power plants so we are not running off the overloaded plant.

What I think happened is that a plant got hit by lightning (in Ottawa I think) so when the one in NY took over, it overloaded.

I'll be getting some more news coverage to add to this.

Archived topic from Iceteks, old topic ID:1220, old post ID:10778

Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 9:19 pm

Here's some interesting coverage I found on this issue. This is one of the biggest black out recorded since quite a while.

NYC:
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/08/14/power.out...tage/index.html

Ottawa:
http://ottawa.cbc.ca/regional/servlet/View...t_power20030814

" Hydro says people should unplug all appliances and turn off all switches to allow the power network to function as it stabilitizing."
(...)
"The U.S. government was quick to say the blackout did not result from an act of terrorism."

Power Outage tips:
http://winnipeg.cbc.ca/quickstats/powerout.html

Investigation on cause: http://ottawa.cbc.ca/regional/servlet/View...owerwhy20030814

"A spokesman for the Prime Minister's office, who has been in touch with national defence and the office of critical infrastructure protection and emergency preparedness, now says lightening striking a U.S. power plant was not the cause."

Toronto:
http://www.wtvo.com/Global/story.asp?S=1403120

Experts predicted this:
http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/08/14/energ...gyexpert_030814

"Browning says a few years ago the same thing happened on the West Coast. Six states lost power all because a squirrel got burned on one of the transformers at a crucial time.

"Can you imagine? The entire power system breaks down because of a small rodent?" "
(poor thing!)

Some cities declare state of emergency:
http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/08/14/powercan030814

"There are reports Timmins, Ottawa and St. Catharine's have power."
(...)
"In Sarnia, residents have been told to stay home and keep their doors and windows closed. Eight chemical plants are now spewing hydrocarbons into the air because their venting systems have shut down.

Bruce Campbell of the Independent Market Electricity Operator (IMO) said it could take as much as a couple of days to restore power in some areas.
"
(...)
"Without power, the Toronto subway system shut down. TTC manager Rick Ducharme said managers used backup power to get the trains into stations then removed all passengers from the system.

The TTC moves about 1.4 million people a day, most of them in the morning and evening rush hour. "

"Energy

* Ontario Hydro has asked customers to shut off appliances
* air conditioners and other appliances drain power when they are first turned on. Do not turn on air conditioners until you hear it is OK to do so.
* if your neighbours' power comes back on but you are still in the dark, call your local utility

Telephones, cell phone service

* Bell Canada asks customers not to use their cell phones and land lines to conserve network capacity for emergency calls

Water

* Do not flush toilets
* Toronto's waterworks asks people not to call unless it is an emergency "

Some power returning back:
http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/08/14/blackout030814

"So far there's no clear explanation why the power is out. But the likeliest explanation is that the Niagara Mohawk power grid overloaded late Thursday afternoon, either in northern New York state, or in Southern Ontario. It quickly produced the biggest blackout in North American in nearly 40 years."
(...)
"New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg says the problem was caused when an overload in the Niagara Mohawk system "cascaded" down the eastern seaboard and public utilities shut down in a preventative way. "They shut down automatically, which they're programmed to do," said Bloomberg."

ATM systems snarled by power outage, flights cancelled:
http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/08/14/power_biz_030814

This should make for some nifty coverage.

Archived topic from Iceteks, old topic ID:1220, old post ID:10779

jryan · Post by **jryan** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 9:45 pm

I actually experienced some of that. Most of Ontario and the Northern US States. We're lucky, though, because they're slowly bringing the power grid back online to avoid causing more damage. An example of slowly bringing it back online is that Red, for example, got power back at 8:00PM, whereas I live across a small town of 70,000+ people from him and it took until 9:10PM for me to get my power back. The phone systems were overloaded, couldn't make calls for the first two hours after the commencement of the outage, and even the cell network seemed overloaded. But I laugh that Timmins got our power restored before Toronto.. heh heh heh... even thus, I kind of expected it. I think we now realize how dependant we are on electricity and I think folks really should have calmed down more... Look at us Ontarians. Last heat wave, our Provincial government warned that we came dangerously close to running out of electricity, and urged us to turn down our A/C and reduce overall power consumption. But, no one listened. We hit a new heatwave and the demand was overwhelming.

Also, 150 miners are currently trapped below ground in Sudbury, however they do have oxygen and water. Kinda scary, especially when I know one of the guys. Another scary thought is that Detroit doesn't have power right now... think of the crime rate escalation in areas such as that.

Archived topic from Iceteks, old topic ID:1220, old post ID:10780

jryan · Post by **jryan** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 9:53 pm

"The North American Electric Reliability Council said power in Ontario was being brought back on-line through connections with Manitoba. "

Source
http://www.msnbc.com/news/952578.asp?vts=081420031845

Archived topic from Iceteks, old topic ID:1220, old post ID:10781

Chris Vogel · Post by **Chris Vogel** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 10:08 pm

I was shocked when I heard about this. Those poor people. You know, it was hot in New York today.

I wasn't affected obviously. Imagine being in a crowded elevator at the time.

That would be terrible!

Archived topic from Iceteks, old topic ID:1220, old post ID:10785

Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 10:08 pm

Yep, I forgot to mention the mines. That's one scary thing. (as I type I just got a slight surge) If something out of the ordinary happends, such as a colapse or something getting a heart attack or other such thing, there's nothing at all they can do.

Archived topic from Iceteks, old topic ID:1220, old post ID:10786

Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 10:09 pm

takahita_tsukino wrote: I was shocked when I heard about this. Those poor people. You know, it was hot in New York today.

I wasn't affected obviously. Imagine being in a crowded elevator at the time. That would be terrible!

Yep, that would suck. It would get so hot fast in there, and think of those who are clusterphobic that would get stuck in there. In the dark. I think they got emergency lights in those, but maybe not all.

Archived topic from Iceteks, old topic ID:1220, old post ID:10787

manadren_it · Post by **manadren_it** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:02 pm

Hehe, this is the first I've heard of it. Obviously I'm far south enough not to be affected.

Archived topic from Iceteks, old topic ID:1220, old post ID:10794

Wren · Post by **Wren** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:05 pm

Hey Red, glad you are back.

I got a buddy in Windsor, Ontario. Don't know what the status is there.

Archived topic from Iceteks, old topic ID:1220, old post ID:10795

Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:06 pm

That's funny. I guess it's not all over the news in your area. It might be but not as much as here and affected areas.

This is quite exciting. But I feel sorry for those that will be out for long. And those in critical need such as hospitals. Not to mention that it will spoil a lot of food in fridges and cause a big ammount of waste.

Archived topic from Iceteks, old topic ID:1220, old post ID:10796

Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:06 pm

Wren wrote: Hey Red, glad you are back.

I got a buddy in Windsor, Ontario. Don't know what the status is there.

Hmm not sure. I think all the bigger places are still out.

Archived topic from Iceteks, old topic ID:1220, old post ID:10797

Wren · Post by **Wren** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:09 pm

The hospitals have generators, not sure how they are powered though.

Archived topic from Iceteks, old topic ID:1220, old post ID:10798

Wren · Post by **Wren** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:11 pm

Manadren, the looters in New York and a lot of other places will have a field day!

Archived topic from Iceteks, old topic ID:1220, old post ID:10799

Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Thu Aug 14, 2003 11:22 pm

Wren wrote: The hospitals have generators, not sure how they are powered though.

Probably gas/deasil. But they can only last for a certain time. I know telecom offices have giant batteries that can last for crazy periods of time under crazy usages (I like getting technical with numbers

) and it would make sense for hospitals to have that too, but not sure if they do though. Telecom offices have both generators and those batteries. It runs as a giant UPS and can run the office for 24 hours on the batteries alone, not sure how long the gen can go though.

Archived topic from Iceteks, old topic ID:1220, old post ID:10801

manadren_it · Post by **manadren_it** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 12:13 am

Wren wrote: Manadren, the looters in New York and a lot of other places will have a field day!

funny, that was my first thought when I heard about the blackout. Man there had to be some crazy looting going on

I wouldn't know about the news though. I would suppose it's been all those reporters could talk about today. I just don't watch a lot of tv. At least not the news anyway - half of it's crap, and whenever anythign happens the same scant info is repeated ad nauseum 247 with titles that try to sell someones suffering like the latest blockbuster movie. Sadly enough most of the news I get is off of /., and I really hadn't checked it until recently.

Archived topic from Iceteks, old topic ID:1220, old post ID:10804

rovingcowboy · Post by **rovingcowboy** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 2:13 am

now now guys. first i know i am posting this at 1 am us central standard time but lets get the facts right. it was not a fire at the nyc plant it was a circuit breaker in canada tripping and shutting the power off.

and canada wont admit it was their fault

but really guys the trouble is caused by an unknown reason at the time and right now there are sectors of nyc getting power back up, jersey city had some back up around midnight. and the power in toleado ohio was back on around 5:30 pm yesturday. so it is not going to be long now. might be backup tommrow but it was also not the whole upper usa. it was just one big circle that included ny pa oh mich vermont conn. mas, ri but not everywhere in them states were affected. my mom was in pa and using a cell phone to talk to me so it was not anywhere near york pa or gettysburg.

also guys you must be old to think of the looters first.

thats not waht i thought of first

Archived topic from Iceteks, old topic ID:1220, old post ID:10806

Wren · Post by **Wren** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 10:41 am

Look who's talking about being old!

I think the failure, where ever it came from, just started a domino effect. One area's power supply fails and puts the load on another supplier that can't handle the load.

Archived topic from Iceteks, old topic ID:1220, old post ID:10809

Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 12:22 pm

Wren wrote: Look who's talking about being old!

I think the failure, where ever it came from, just started a domino effect. One area's power supply fails and puts the load on another supplier that can't handle the load.

Yep, I think that's exactly what happened. Now they just need to figure out what made that plant stop, lightning, breaker? They still don't know.

Our power went out again last night from 12:00am to about 8:00am. My UPS did not seem completly charged as I did not have enough time to shut down, but all I really wanted is to get in bed while the light of the monitor was still on.
Man I should daisy chain a bunch of UPSes together. Or I can build a giant one using lead acid batteries.

I heard using a car battery for a ups actually works, but the problem is that it releases hydrogen which could be dangeraus. And not sure if you need to change the whole battery charging board, probably.

Archived topic from Iceteks, old topic ID:1220, old post ID:10811

Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 3:17 pm

Just for some updated coverage. There seems to be a conflict on what caused it, but it turns out it was most likely lightning after all.

Canada says U.S. nuclear plant caused outage
"It was caused by a power outage at a nuclear plant in Pennsylvania," said Thoren Hudyma, a senior spokeswoman for the Prime Minister's Office in Ottawa.

But U.S. grid operators dismissed the comment, saying Pennsylvania's nuclear plants had been operating smoothly and that the blame lies elsewhere.

Lightning sparked blackout fire
"We confirm that there was a fire in the Con Edison power plant in the Niagara region on the American side," a statement said.

America comes out of the darkness
The cause of the power cut is still a matter of speculation with American and Canadian officials blaming each other.

Terrorism and sabotage have been ruled out and Jean Chretian, Canada's prime minister, has said that a severe outage at a Pennsylvania nuclear plant may have caused the crisis.

Earlier, officials said fire or lightning had hit a power plant near Niagara Falls in New York state.

Power grid operators said there appeared to have been a failure on the high-voltage transmission lines connecting the United States and Canada.

Experts said the American government was warned several years ago that the grid was in urgent need of a major overhaul to cope with rising demand.

Archived topic from Iceteks, old topic ID:1220, old post ID:10813

jryan · Post by **jryan** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 4:06 pm

Red:
Our power went out again last night from 12:00am to about 8:00am.

That's strange, must just have been your end of town. I was still online at 12:00AM and I got up at 8am and we still had power.... Must be the beginning of them Rotating Outages that have been talked about.

Archived topic from Iceteks, old topic ID:1220, old post ID:10814

Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Fri Aug 15, 2003 4:52 pm

jryan wrote:
Red:
Our power went out again last night from 12:00am to about 8:00am.
That's strange, must just have been your end of town. I was still online at 12:00AM and I got up at 8am and we still had power.... Must be the beginning of them Rotating Outages that have been talked about.

Actually I heard other reports that it was only affecting the mountjoy area and not all Timmins, so it's probably the rotating outages like you mentioned. We're pretty bad though as we have the A/C going and all, and my mom is doing the cleaning and all the hazardous material stuff which involves lot of flushing the toilet and such just like they say to minimize. Oh well.

Archived topic from Iceteks, old topic ID:1220, old post ID:10816

Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 1:22 pm

Turns out 3 major power lines in Ohio failed and that's what caused it. I knew it was USA's fault.

Archived topic from Iceteks, old topic ID:1220, old post ID:10859

Carpet Rodent · Post by **Carpet Rodent** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 9:59 am

And I thought Zimbabwe had its problems

So far, we've had 7 nation-wide power-outages

These have caused considerable chaos (on one of them my brother was doing a chartered flight and had no comms with ATC or anything else).

Other than that, smaller cuts have occurred across the country at various times. A braai (aka Barb-B-Q) is the way forward here, unless it's raining

Archived topic from Iceteks, old topic ID:1220, old post ID:10895

Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Fri Aug 22, 2003 10:22 pm

Actually I heard stuff that goes on in Zimbabwe since that comunist leader started. Someone at the camp I went to fleed from there when he was 8 (he was in his 20's I guess so it's still a while back).

Right now our solution is to save power.

Archived topic from Iceteks, old topic ID:1220, old post ID:10941