TC1 FEEDBACK: Artifact Changes

[ggkthx]

Started to reply item by item and that seemed pointless.

My absolute #1 preference is for everything to stay like it is, excluding of course name changes, appearance changes, or changes to how an item is acquired.

Removing items that are similar to another item I disagree with. In almost all cases there are distinct differences that would make one item preferable to the other in different circumstances. Or maybe one is almost strictly better but harder to acquire, so there's still certainly a place for the not quite as good but easier to get item.

I did see some removals that I don't think anyone would object to (La Peprita, etc. Those AoA items that really, why would anyone ever want/use them? Replacing those with some sort of decorative drop would even be better.)

Vehemently opposed to removing the trash bag. After Grim Strike it's maybe my favorite item. And I've certainly accidentally deleted things with them, but no one to blame but myself so it didn't bother me. The things are AMAZING for rummaging through a supreme's loot and just tossing the junk into the trash bag to be deleted.

Also think removing Oracle is awful and doesn't make sense. If the system needed more tweaks or something I could see that, but not getting rid of it. Hmm other Leviathan changes... Davy Jones' key, shrug, even though it's kinda cool. Blackheart Treasure, would rather see it left in, but shrug to that too. I think that's all I've got for now.

Oh, except I should say that this was really nice to see:

Alright if most people are not in favor with the changes we'll look into just reverting most of the items to their original states. Some of the items may still be changes for other reasons, such as the iron maiden and gravestones because they are part of heritage tokens. Essentially the item will be the same but moved to another system. A few other items may move as well such as brace of paracelsus to paracelsus.

We'll take a look at what we have and see if it can remain as the original and if it needs to move somewhere.

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[Death]

Moved the artifact discussion to its own thread to better discuss the proposed changes and to be able to change the listings easier without taking away from the other items in the patch log.

Bare with me, I will be putting the listing up at the top once I can figure out how to do so. Thread splitting is a pain to do.

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[dprantl]

I am very glad to hear that the artifacts will stay the way they are for now. Also, since the other artifact topic is locked:

Bracelet of Travel (GAOA) -> Timepiece of the Moons (GAOA) Slight use change

Would it be possible to make this "Orb of Moons" instead, and make it not equippable? That would align it perfectly with Ultima history.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:5902, old post ID:35675

[Death]

I am very glad to hear that the artifacts will stay the way they are for now. Also, since the other artifact topic is locked:

Bracelet of Travel (GAOA) -> Timepiece of the Moons (GAOA) Slight use change

Would it be possible to make this "Orb of Moons" instead, and make it not equippable? That would align it perfectly with Ultima history.

Yea we can do that. The use change is still being devised. Basically we don't want to make it so you have to drop the bracelet on the ground to use that gate function as that's entirely too risky.

The other artifact thread is locked for the time being so nobody posts in it. It's a place holder for the time being, basically that topic will merge into this one so that will be the first post. The listing will be periodically updated until most people agree on it.

We can change the name to orb of moons to tie back with Ultima's history.

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[ggkthx]

Will it still work that you can lock it down on the floor in your house and everyone can use it though?

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:5902, old post ID:35677

[Death]

Will it still work that you can lock it down on the floor in your house and everyone can use it though?

Ya, that functionality is already there. We'll work out what we can do with the item and where it can be improved.

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[Red Squirrel]

Fixed up this thread, the time of the first post may be off. It was adjusted to fix post ordering.

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[Death]

EDIT: Artifact images and changes moved to first post.

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[ggkthx]

Logged on to TC1, my suit is so jacked. If I logged onto Valor one day and found that I think I'd quit on the spot.

That said, Love the side by side item posts Death.
Bummed about Holy Squirrel, always thought that was a very cool item.
No SSI, Slower base speed, LMC 5 is worse than Stam Leech 20, Dislike the new item for stats and flavor.
Didn't use the claws anyway though, never had a fencer. But they kept making me consider trying one out in doom. The new Revelation of Virtue doesn't make me want to do anything but lock it down somewhere.

Bandit's Bolt cool, Mage's Lexicon cool. Yay good old shroud of the dead.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:5902, old post ID:35683

[Death]

Logged on to TC1, my suit is so jacked. If I logged onto Valor one day and found that I think I'd quit on the spot.

That said, Love the side by side item posts Death.
Bummed about Holy Squirrel, always thought that was a very cool item.
No SSI, Slower base speed, LMC 5 is worse than Stam Leech 20, Dislike the new item for stats and flavor.
Didn't use the claws anyway though, never had a fencer. But they kept making me consider trying one out in doom. The new Revelation of Virtue doesn't make me want to do anything but lock it down somewhere.

Bandit's Bolt cool, Mage's Lexicon cool. Yay good old shroud of the dead.

Thanks, thought it would be a lot easier to make a comparison that way.

The revelation of virtue can have the stam leech put in place of the LMC if that is a better choice. The decision to go mace fighting was to give mace fighters an actual good weapon that no other weapon class has.

We'll see what others thing about the weapon change.

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[ggkthx]

Lance of the Stampede, didn't seem too bad, why get rid of it?
That said, didn't use it, so hard to care much.
Jungle Walker bow on the other hand seemed useful, ever so slightly so, and dryad bow is poop. They both are really, but it was a way to get a temp +20 tracking. And Dryad Bow wouldn't be so terrible if it wasn't a Doom arty, something that mediocre shouldn't be so hard to get.

Wondering if there's any chance at any tweaking of doom gaunt items to make the ones that everyone is angry when they get slightly useful?

If not, as long as there's still some really good items that can drop in Doom I guess it makes the grind worth it.

Please, if you haven't, take into consideration that any nerfing of AoAs reduces the already slim chance that anyone will go to Fel, and since there's infinite safe places to go already and tons of good loot to be had in complete safety, please don't make Fel more irrelevant than it already is.

[Edit]: Yay Magician's Edge. One of my fav items.
Boo on removing Longshot, actually one of the 4 bows I carry on my PvP archer, because sometimes I need the extra range to hit someone who is running away.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:5902, old post ID:35686

[Death]

Lance of the Stampede, didn't seem too bad, why get rid of it?
That said, didn't use it, so hard to care much.
Jungle Walker bow on the other hand seemed useful, ever so slightly so, and dryad bow is poop. They both are really, but it was a way to get a temp +20 tracking. And Dryad Bow wouldn't be so terrible if it wasn't a Doom arty, something that mediocre shouldn't be so hard to get.

Wondering if there's any chance at any tweaking of doom gaunt items to make the ones that everyone is angry when they get slightly useful?

If not, as long as there's still some really good items that can drop in Doom I guess it makes the grind worth it.

Please, if you haven't, take into consideration that any nerfing of AoAs reduces the already slim chance that anyone will go to Fel, and since there's infinite safe places to go already and tons of good loot to be had in complete safety, please don't make Fel more irrelevant than it already is.

Lance of the stampede was initially decided to be removed for overall usefulness. The lance weapon itself doesn't generally attract a wide variety of warriors due to its usefulness. However, it doesn't have to change if there's enough votes for it to stay.

Jungle walker bow can stay as well, the tracking skill bonus on it could be useful as mentioned earlier so we'll see what everyone thinks.

As for tweaking doom items, there's no plans to tweak the OSI items at this time. The drop list grows for that system though as we add more stuff. Same with paragons and UOML named creatures.

The fel dilemma is often going to be a problem because fel players want to be able to have non-consensual pvp whereas those who want items but don't want to pvp are going to have issues with it. For the time being we are taking this into consideration so that people will still be journeying into fel to gather these items.

EDIT:

Boo on removing Longshot, actually one of the 4 bows I carry on my PvP archer, because sometimes I need the extra range to hit someone who is running away.

20 range on it was a little excessive. Can be off the screen and get dismounted, that was the major reason for the removal.

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[Nexus Graveheart]

A black staff artifact would be nice. I know there is the one that drops from the magma serpent, but they are not craftable, and loot from beasts is always a "hope for the best" situation. It is an excellent macing weapon.

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[Death]

A black staff artifact would be nice. I know there is the one that drops from the magma serpent, but they are not craftable, and loot from beasts is always a "hope for the best" situation. It is an excellent macing weapon.

There was one added to a proposed Semidar drop named "silence". It's essentially a mana leeching weapon.

As there's 2 quarter staff weapons being introduced, the Revelation of Virtue and pyrolisk's furor we can possibly change one to be a black staff. We can also make a new one.

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[ggkthx]

Latest feedback: I think the Red Wind nerf and Cyclist helm nerf both suck.
Sure, a lucky cyclist helm was REALLY good, but also not easy to come by at all. I've got plenty of 10/10/10 ones to show for it. And those are terrible/unwearable. I've gotten... 3 or maybe 4 I think with resist bumps and that at least made them usable.

I can see losing the self repair on the Red Wind if you want, and the name change makes sense. I don't see any reason to change if beyond that. Bump the cold resist penalty to -6% even. But otherwise it's getting nerfed by 2% SDI, 5 mana, and a whopping 30 resist! Brings it to almost unusable because it would be worse than any decent crafted gloves and the SDI and mana bonus won't make it worth using over crafted gloves with good resists or different artifact gloves. I think all my mages are wearing them, cuz they're nice gloves, but I don't think that they're overpowered.
Less self repair on stuff would be nice though, make repairing something to keep in mind.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:5902, old post ID:35691

[Death]

Latest feedback: I think the Red Wind nerf and Cyclist helm nerf both suck.
Sure, a lucky cyclist helm was REALLY good, but also not easy to come by at all. I've got plenty of 10/10/10 ones to show for it. And those are terrible/unwearable. I've gotten... 3 or maybe 4 I think with resist bumps and that at least made them usable.

I can see losing the self repair on the Red Wind if you want, and the name change makes sense. I don't see any reason to change if beyond that. Bump the cold resist penalty to -6% even. But otherwise it's getting nerfed by 2% SDI, 5 mana, and a whopping 30 resist! Brings it to almost unusable because it would be worse than any decent crafted gloves and the SDI and mana bonus won't make it worth using over crafted gloves with good resists or different artifact gloves. I think all my mages are wearing them, cuz they're nice gloves, but I don't think that they're overpowered.
Less self repair on stuff would be nice though, make repairing something to keep in mind.

For Red Wind gloves we can keep the name, remove the self repair and modify the properties. We can try the following:

Int Bonus 10, Mage Armor, MR3, SDI 10, 23, 25, -6, 3, 3 OR Just keep it the same as before with the name change.

The cyclist helm/horseman helm, ideally it would probably be better to have them with mid-high level resists as it causes a huge difference between them when you get something with all 10's and then something with 25+ in each. We'll see what everyone else thinks as we can keep it with the random resist bonuses if everyone likes it.

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[ggkthx]

Big thanks for being willing to discuss the proposed changes though instead of just doing whatever you want and telling us to live with it or GTFO.

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[dprantl]

Bracelet Of Travel: You never had to drop it to the ground, just have it in your backpack and double-click on it. Is that changed?

Red Wind Gloves: I agree, with the changes it is no longer very good at all. I do see why energy resist may not go along with the theme, so the fire resist instead would be good too.

Cyclist's Helm: Basically it's just a resist piece, nothing else. And yes, it didn't spawn with the high resists often. The lower level helm could be bumped a little to be closer to the high-end one.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:5902, old post ID:35696

[Death]

Bracelet Of Travel: You never had to drop it to the ground, just have it in your backpack and double-click on it. Is that changed?

Red Wind Gloves: I agree, with the changes it is no longer very good at all. I do see why energy resist may not go along with the theme, so the fire resist instead would be good too.

Cyclist's Helm: Basically it's just a resist piece, nothing else. And yes, it didn't spawn with the high resists often. The lower level helm could be bumped a little to be closer to the high-end one.

Bracelet of Travel: You can still double click it to use the gate. The item in reference was the ability to put it on the ground. If it was on the ground it could be used as a gate. This is not a problem in a house where it's locked down but it's more of an issue on the fly when you use it for that purpose outside of an area with a lockdown. When used that way it is risky as somebody can just take the item.

Red Wind Gloves: Alright we can keep most of the original changes there. The energy resist swap was due to it having a new name so they were sorted to better fit. We'll work on that one some more.

Cyclist Helm: We'll work on this one some more too. We can either keep it as is with the chance of getting more resist bonuses or we can raise the level to be mid range, similar to a kasa of the rajin. In comparison, it would probably be easier to get a kasa of the rajin then to roll one of these when you get a paragon minor artifact so it's likely justified.

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[Death]

Added images to the first post. The first post will likely be the "main" spot for comparisons, changes and current status.

Right now we are concentrating on the first row of artifacts in the museum. Once the status of each one is green (Green being considered a general positive consensus amongst players), then we will move on to the next row of artifacts and post similar images.

Any item that has mostly negative reviews will be highlighted in red and re-attempted according to what players have suggested, preferred and what the developers can scale to.

Items that are orange colored represent a new change that has been made (Item brought in for revisions and the new prototype released for critiquing).

Anything olive colored still needs to be reviewed after a change has been made. If no comments are made on the item, it will eventually be considered as a positive change and changed to green.

There is a key at the top of the first post discerning what the colors mean. We will post when new item changes are up or have been revised so take a look at the first post.

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[dprantl]

I thought Longshot was really fun. Maybe you can change it to another type so it doesn't have the dismount special?

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[Death]

I thought Longshot was really fun. Maybe you can change it to another type so it doesn't have the dismount special?

The 20 range on it did make it a unique weapon but if you consider it in pvp where the range is long enough to fire off screen without being seen that can be problematic. The range is too high on it, it's more than double the standard weapon. You are essentially attacking from 20 tiles away, which exceeds every other ranged attack, including spells. Switching to another bow has the potential to be devastating with a different special such as paralyzing blow, armor ignore, mortal strike etc.

We could keep it in but we would strongly recommend not having an item with that kind of range. We recommend converting to nox ranger's bow or an AOA replace or reroll.

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[ggkthx]

To chime in on some of the uncommented ones,
La Peprita > Shadow Stalker, sure looks good.
Lance of the Stampede, sure may as well reroll it.
Lava Shaka > Pyrolish, sure looks good.
Longshot, keep and reduce range maybe? 18? 16?
Frankly, if anyone EVER killed me from off screen with a Longshot, more power to them.

Mage's Lightblade > Crystal Stalactite Not too keen on the stalactite name, can't think of anything better at the moment, otherwise looks good.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:5902, old post ID:35701

[Death]

NEW CHANGES

Take a look at the first post in this thread for new changes (Orange names). Provide feedback on the following changes:

Claws of the Holy Squirrel (OLD) -> The Revelation of Virtue (NEW)
Cyclist Helm (OLD) -> Horseman's Helm (NEW)
Jungle Walker's Bow (OLD) -> Jungle Walker's Bow (NEW)
Longshot (OLD) -> Longshot (NEW)
Mage's Lightblade (OLD) -> God of the Sky (NEW)
Red Wind Gloves (OLD) -> Red Dragon's Grapple (NEW)

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[ggkthx]

Revelation looks like a nice mace wep now, though I'm no authority on macers.

Horseman's Helm, other than I can't see myself paragon farming at all, looks good.

Jungle Walker's Bow, looks good.

Longshot, mortal on xbow is nice, but I personally liked Longshot for moving shot. But compromised version is better than no version, and hopefully addresses your concerns with it.

God of the Sky is cool.

Red Dragon's, seems alright, would love to trade that self repair 3 for the extra 2% SDI tho. And I have no idea how I'm going to fix the impending energy resist hole in my suit, heh.

I'm still going to advocate for abolishing the self repair property on artifacts. They've got 255 durability, at least they should need to be repaired now and then. We already never need to eat or drink anything, its not like life is hard. Repairing gear makes crafters seem slightly relevant and repair deeds simplified the process so very much already.

Oh, was looking at Pyrolisk's Furor again. For flavor reasons alone, could it have a hit fire area added on it? Just thought that would be cool. But if not that's fine too. Oh, and clearly I vote for removing Self Repair 3

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