Wtf!

Trill · Post by **Trill** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:39 pm

I find it bullshit my thread was locked because some idiots got on there and turned it into a wtf omg i having nothing better to do but post nonsense thread. I opened that thread because pets spawns completely ignore your pet!!!!! main reason right there and second when u go invis your pets just stop defending themselves and stand there and die. second reason right there and the second reason was even confirmed that they should not be acting like that
by *death* it was not a wtf omg cry thread and if people want to make one than go make your own i dont care how uber leet u are or that YOU can solo everything blah blah blah.

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onykage · Post by **onykage** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:43 pm

Trill wrote:I find it bullshit my thread was locked because some idiots got on there and turned it into a wtf omg i having nothing better to do but post nonsense thread. I opened that thread because pets spawns completely ignore your pet!!!!! main reason right there and second when u go invis your pets just stop defending themselves and stand there and die. second reason right there and the second reason was even confirmed that they should not be acting like that
by *death* it was not a wtf omg cry thread and if people want to make one than go make your own i dont care how uber leet u are or that YOU can solo everything blah blah blah.

I believe i answered this question once before but i'll take another shot at it.

Mobiles will break off and agro the tamer because the tamer is much weaker then the pet. So the most effective way to kill a pet/tamer is to target the player controlling the pet first. That's not a bug, that's just simple stat analysis. You have less HP and probably less resists.

Pets go AWOL when you hide or become invisible because they have to see you to maintain their loyalty. The higher the slot requirement for the pet the faster this will happen, ie a 5 slot AW will go AWOL immediately when you disappear from line of sight. This is not the case if you die, because they can still see you, but if you leave the pet to fight while you go res then that pet will wander off because its master is no where in site.

The ability to tell your pet to attack something and then hide/invis while it does all the work will never again exist on AOV. It was removed due to exploits and abuse, and it is the reason that the pet line of sight loyalty was added. In the future more plans are being drawn up to further adjust the tamer to make the class have more balance, but the days of "all kill + insta hide" are over. Tamers will continue to require lots of patience and a good understanding of that pets lore as well as alot of experience with using that pet, ie tamers will always have to work just as hard as a dexer or mage, if not alittle harder.

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dprantl · Post by **dprantl** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:35 pm

I look forward to these tamer changes. It must mean a lesser tendency for a mob to turn on the tamer, or at least a time cap on how often they can do it. But you must realize that veterinary becomes completely useless when fighting mobs that switch to the tamer all the time, right?

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Death · Post by **Death** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:09 pm

dprantl wrote:I look forward to these tamer changes. It must mean a lesser tendency for a mob to turn on the tamer, or at least a time cap on how often they can do it. But you must realize that veterinary becomes completely useless when fighting mobs that switch to the tamer all the time, right?

Yes, the targeting will be changed on various factors including:
-Healing distance
-Number of monsters fighting you at one time
-How long you are going while hidden
-How long was your last targeting session (May vary per mobile such as a moloch not caring but a dragon might sniff you out better).

Veterinary is not useless as there is less chance to target the tamer depending on proximity (I believe, red would have to confirm this). So if you're firing away with magery spells from 6 tiles away, you're probably in worse shape.

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:14 pm

Yes I can confirm that if you are near the mob using vet (which btw, is fixed to be as per osi here, most shards require you to be RIGHT up to your pet, here it's 3 tiles) then the odds of the mob targeting you are smaller. Yes, it will still happen, just not as often.

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ggkthx · Post by **ggkthx** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:23 pm

Personally I still prefer the distance on most mobs, it gives me more of a chance to react to the wtfpwning I am about to incur. If I'm closer vetting its like oh its targetting m... I'm dead.

I've never much liked playing a tamer anyway, I just used to do it a lot cuz it was the easiest/most effective way to do a lot of things. Here that is at least less true, so now I just don't play my tamer.
Not a problem really, though I feel for the people who played a tamer cuz they liked having pets etc and not because it was ez-mode.
I think they're the minority in the tamer community, but the more vocal people here (i.e. Trill) sound upset that their fav char feels unplayable not that you took away their overpoweredness. Shrug.

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Plastic Man · Post by **Plastic Man** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:07 pm

I think that perhaps one of the problems is alot of the changes went into effect to prevent people who are good at the game and played tamers because they were easy mode from abusing that. I don't believe most of the people who played tamers because they enjoyed them abused the easiness of the tamer class the way other people who just wanted the easy route did. So perhaps there is some middle ground to be found for the people that enjoy taming and pets and a way to prevent people from abusing easy mode. Perhaps the loyalty thing does need adjusting to compensate.

But in the end no matter how you change things you can't be unhappy just because a few people can do things that everyone else cannot. It is in the nature of any game. There will always be people who can come up with a method of doing things better than everyone else. While sometimes this is broken, it does not have to mean it is broken. And I'm not talking about exploits, exploits are something else entirely and should be squashed as soon as possible. I'm talking about legitimate methods that are superior.

Better methods do exist, will always, and often when they do, the people who know them will not share them with the community at large. Why you may ask? Because if everyone knew you wouldn't have your edge anymore. And as in any competitive enviroment you want whatever edge you can. Your edge is what can make you a better player than those around you.

That being said you do have to achieve some sort of balance, and often the newer players or less competitive/serious players get caught in the crossfire. This is one of those situations. The tamer changes were put in place because skilled players were able to do many things very easily and quickly, and apparently in the staff's opinion, too fast and easily. While many less serious players or less skilled players were simply overlooked as consequences of these changes. These changes were put in place to make taming a challenging class to play for people who have alot of practice. If you aren't familiar with other classes and how to survive in a multitude of situations, a tamer against this AI can be very daunting, even down right discouraging.

My best advice is to start out with other classes, and qork to build your tamer a good suit with 55+ all resists, as well as having luck before you try to play on a tamer versus hard Mobs. Yes, it is nerfed, I am sorry for the players out there that hate it now, but learn to adapt. In the end it is much more rewarding to achieve somethign if you really have to work for it.

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Trill · Post by **Trill** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:46 am

I was just venting at some of the nonsense that was posted in the last thread i understand now about the ai

PS= pls dont ever lower the vetting from 3 tiles away it's the only thing that helps me sleep at night

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Death · Post by **Death** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:12 am

Trill wrote:I was just venting at some of the nonsense that was posted in the last thread i understand now about the ai

PS= pls dont ever lower the vetting from 3 tiles away it's the only thing that helps me sleep at night

That's the standard on OSI so that's the standard here.

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Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:21 pm

No offence but
Pets damage is way to nerfed; i mean they can tank but for a pure tamer a blood elly para is gunna be a half hour battle considering there are about 10 players here with taming PS's for AW's ect. A blood elly can heal as fast as a ru or cu can damage it and dows so grrrrrr
Where as a Dexer - mage can take one out pretty qucik.
So when u make pets do as much damage as a dexer i will understand u callin them the easy class.
Seems pretty fair pets have more hit points - dexers - mages are way smarter considering the player has complete control over their spells and healing themselves ect.
As for the retargetting thing. Its good and is reasonably easily worked around with some practice. but generally it requires being mounted so u can run when energy bolts start coming or if ur being chaced.

The only other thing i have to say is that when u have very high ping like me solo'ing anything is rediculouse battle with lag specially when the creature has high magery. So for the sake of those with high ping something should be done.
For reference i play an archer pali tamer and it works for me. My wifey plays the same class.

I would just shut up if someone would lead me to a 115 taming and lore scroll lawl. Maybe one for archery and tactics also

Lub ya's haha

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Death · Post by **Death** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:35 pm

Drucilia wrote:No offence but
Pets damage is way to nerfed; i mean they can tank but for a pure tamer a blood elly para is gunna be a half hour battle considering there are about 10 players here with taming PS's for AW's ect. A blood elly can heal as fast as a ru or cu can damage it and dows so grrrrrr
Where as a Dexer - mage can take one out pretty qucik.
So when u make pets do as much damage as a dexer i will understand u callin them the easy class.
Seems pretty fair pets have more hit points - dexers - mages are way smarter considering the player has complete control over their spells and healing themselves ect.
As for the retargetting thing. Its good and is reasonably easily worked around with some practice. but generally it requires being mounted so u can run when energy bolts start coming or if ur being chaced.

The only other thing i have to say is that when u have very high ping like me solo'ing anything is rediculouse battle with lag specially when the creature has high magery. So for the sake of those with high ping something should be done.
For reference i play an archer pali tamer and it works for me. My wifey plays the same class.

I would just shut up if someone would lead me to a 115 taming and lore scroll lawl. Maybe one for archery and tactics also Lub ya's haha

Yes, your concerns have been noted and plans have already been made and discussed. It will take awhile to restructure as these changes affect numerous systems such as AI, taming, barding, pets, damage etc etc so all these areas need to be thoroughly researched and planned. This is also a reason for the revamp as numerous areas of UO are interrelated so they need to be done in succession.

If you are looking to do a decent amount of damage with pets, there are quite a few pack instinct pets around which can provide a generous damage bonus in numbers. Numerous players are fans of jackals and hell hounds.

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Plastic Man · Post by **Plastic Man** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:40 pm

Omg Quit whining about AWs. For the love of soemthing. They blow so much that Kleenex refuses to sell to them anymore so they have tissues left to sell to everyone else.

I mean seriously I have 3 AWs, and don't use a single one in favor of my other pets. I'd Use 2 Mares over an AW at this point. So just get over it. AWs are not super pets in spite of all the crap some people talk about them. A regular dragon tanks better than the old 3 slot AWs. And their damage output isn't anythign special. There are many combos of pets in game that seriously outshine an AW. Take a look around find some of them.

And as for the damage thing use some common sense (Even though obviously its not common), if a Cu or Ru don't have the damage output then try a different pet. The strength of a Cu is how well it Tanks not how much DPS is does. It's a trade off, endurance for damage. Choose one, not both. And Ru's really don't have a strength, they pretty much just suck, they are just easy to find so a lot of people have one. Try a Rune Beetle to keep the ele poisined, try a pet with a different elemental damage type on their attack. Don't just give up because your generic answer doesn't work and then cry on the forums that it's broken.

Point in fact, the highest DPS on valor is a pack you can tame, you only need like 87 taming. Granted that combo is kinda a glass giant (Deal high damage but can be hard to keep alive). But that goes back to the who Endurance to Damage tradeoff I mentioned. And no I'm not telling you what the combo is (Maybe if your lucky soemone else will), but in reality you can go out and tame a ton of pets a find it, that's part of taming too.

AND quit whining aobut not having a 115 taming PS. Theres at least one on a vendor in Luna, there's many champs around that are rarely touched so you could farm your own, or you could actually talk to people about trading for one. Just don't QQ you dont have one yet. It's not like they are hard to get and in reality you don't even freakin need it except to raise the sucess rate for Cu's and such, there is no pet let available to tame that you need 115 taming for that is worth taming.

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Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:42 pm

Man I would kill to be able to do that code and stuff coz then i could help instead of just asking other people to fix my complaints.
but i am not a coder. I am a dopey meat worker and should behave as such.
BTW -30 winds wtf. Its autumn here or something its still 35 celcius outside at 8:00am

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Plastic Man · Post by **Plastic Man** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:45 pm

I've never seen a single Hell hound pack on valor *Shrug*. I do on the otehr hand have a Predator Hell Cat pack on one tamer for shiggles.

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Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:46 pm

Plastic Man wrote:Omg Quit whining about AWs. For the love of soemthing. They blow so much that Kleenex refuses to sell to them anymore so they have tissues left to sell to everyone else.

I mean seriously I have 3 AWs, and don't use a single one in favor of my other pets. I'd Use 2 Mares over an AW at this point. So just get over it. AWs are not super pets in spite of all the crap some people talk about them. A regular dragon tanks better than the old 3 slot AWs. And their damage output isn't anythign special. There are many combos of pets in game that seriously outshine an AW. Take a look around find some of them.

And as for the damage thing use some common sense (Even though obviously its not common), if a Cu or Ru don't have the damage output then try a different pet. The strength of a Cu is how well it Tanks not how much DPS is does. It's a trade off, endurance for damage. Choose one, not both. And Ru's really don't have a strength, they pretty much just suck, they are just easy to find so a lot of people have one. Try a Rune Beetle to keep the ele poisined, try a pet with a different elemental damage type on their attack. Don't just give up because your generic answer doesn't work and then cry on the forums that it's broken.

Point in fact, the highest DPS on valor is a pack you can tame, you only need like 87 taming. Granted that combo is kinda a glass giant (Deal high damage but can be hard to keep alive). But that goes back to the who Endurance to Damage tradeoff I mentioned. And no I'm not telling you what the combo is (Maybe if your lucky soemone else will), but in reality you can go out and tame a ton of pets a find it, that's part of taming too.

AND quit whining aobut not having a 115 taming PS. Theres at least one on a vendor in Luna, there's many champs around that are rarely touched so you could farm your own, or you could actually talk to people about trading for one. Just don't QQ you dont have one yet. It's not like they are hard to get and in reality you don't even freakin need it except to raise the sucess rate for Cu's and such, there is no pet let available to tame that you need 115 taming for that is worth taming.

Plastic we all know well that you and your guildies are more then happy to keep things the way they are so what ever your gunna say on here is just trying to keep that status quo.

ROFLMAO 115 taming for 100000000 GP's lol what a joke

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Plastic Man · Post by **Plastic Man** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:51 pm

Seriously stop acting like you know me. I am all for change if and have argued on it on many occasions. So quit pretending that you understand me at all.

I have and will argue against any changes that I don't feel really are needed. But on the same note I do frequently argue for changes that I feel are needed. So just get over your personal bias and keep said bias out of arguements.

Oh and please cry less. It's really annoying that pretty much every other post by you is crying about somethign being to hard because you only try to do it one way. Learn to adapt.

And I've never seen a 115 taming for 10 Mil, but someone could have don't that I guess. But in reality if the prices on vendors are too high for you maybe you should go farm one up yourself.

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Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:55 pm

hmmmmmm more like 100 mill just out side luna wall and i constantly search every vendor in luna for a 115 taming scroll.
If i wanted to do a champ to get raided by newbs i would have done it by now

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Plastic Man · Post by **Plastic Man** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:58 pm

Try 1.75 Mil on a vendor on the way to the gate Library. That's a far cry from 100 mil. L O L

And I forgot that by newbs raiding you you probably mean soemone who cries less and kills you. Everyone has to start somewhere, it's the people that cry about it all the time that don't get as much help from other people.

I'm more than willing to be polite and helpful to a new player if they simply ask for advice. When they cry that its just to gosh darn hard and needs to be changed, it offends me and they are very likely to get treated like a crybaby who deseres no respect. Just saying.

*Edit* And on that note I'm leaving this alone from now on after adding one more thing. If it's too hard, learn to adapt or quit. Stop crying every time.

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Death · Post by **Death** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:00 pm

Plastic Man wrote:I've never seen a single Hell hound pack on valor *Shrug*. I do on the otehr hand have a Predator Hell Cat pack on one tamer for shiggles.

Many players just go to jackals right away.

Drucilia wrote:Man I would kill to be able to do that code and stuff coz then i could help instead of just asking other people to fix my complaints.

Don't need to be a coder in order to help. There are times when players have helped staff in numerous ways by creating guides or by providing some statistics or detailed information on what they've experienced. In fact, a lot of the data provided was looked over and cross-referenced during fixing so it made things easier to scale.

If you feel strongly about the taming, you could provide a detailed summary of your experiences to aid us in fixing it up, in addition to our own findings. Just send an email to the owner/administrator or developer and they'll redirect it to the ones in charge:
http://www.uovalor.com/contentdb/index.php?sect=37

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dprantl · Post by **dprantl** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:18 pm

I must agree with Plastic that AW's (all the versions) are really not that good. I'm not sure why they were perceived to be such a big problem.

Anyway, the devs now know about this and will address it during the revamp, so no point in talking about it anymore for now.

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Death · Post by **Death** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:31 pm

dprantl wrote:I'm not sure why they were perceived to be such a big problem.

The very first batch were the issue due to their resists being so high and the AI doing the super spam healing (Remember when the AI used to heal like a mofo? It affected tames too as AI is inherited on AOV, not mimicked). With all the changes done to AI and AWs, then they became less and less of a problem, but unfortunately they became less worth it AND there were a good 7 different versions, making it confusing. After the revamp they'll likely be replaced with greater dragons and rendered down to 1 balanced version.

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Plastic Man · Post by **Plastic Man** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:30 pm

Death wrote:
dprantl wrote:I'm not sure why they were perceived to be such a big problem.
The very first batch were the issue due to their resists being so high and the AI doing the super spam healing (Remember when the AI used to heal like a mofo? It affected tames too as AI is inherited on AOV, not mimicked). With all the changes done to AI and AWs, then they became less and less of a problem, but unfortunately they became less worth it AND there were a good 7 different versions, making it confusing. After the revamp they'll likely be replaced with greater dragons and rendered down to 1 balanced version.

I would gladly trade in all my AWs for Greater dragons. ATM a regular drag or a Cu are better choices than AWs.

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Minky · Post by **Minky** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:44 pm

Don't discount Drakes either, they make nice physical fighters. And you can have 2 of them.

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Dollpartz · Post by **Dollpartz** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 12:15 am

ZOMG yes. Bring on the GDrags

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