AWs vs 5-Slot Dragons

[Plastic Man]

So if I turn in my 3 Slot AWs, I get a PBD to replace them with a 5 slot mob? I arrived after 3 slotters were gone, I traded for these 3 slotters, hardly seems fair.

Why would I want to turn in my AWs with really high Resist spells and Insciption for a pet that doesnt have the same bonuses?

These are just 2 things that come to mind. I'm not saying that 5 slot dragons are a bad idea, I'm just saying you should be very wary about nuking all of one type of pet. I mean there are reasons 3 slot AWs were not nuked when 5 slotters came out, etc.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3274, old post ID:20888

[Death]

So if I turn in my 3 Slot AWs, I get a PBD to replace them with a 5 slot mob? I arrived after 3 slotters were gone, I traded for these 3 slotters, hardly seems fair.

Why would I want to turn in my AWs with really high Resist spells and Insciption for a pet that doesnt have the same bonuses?

These are just 2 things that come to mind. I'm not saying that 5 slot dragons are a bad idea, I'm just saying you should be very wary about nuking all of one type of pet. I mean there are reasons 3 slot AWs were not nuked when 5 slotters came out, etc.

You would get a deed to bond a freshly tamed 5-slot dragon instantly by sacrificing an ancient wyrm that is bonded. Of course, you do have the right idea about the 3-slot ancient wyrm. The rarest of the ancient wyrms would have more incentive in bringing them in. We can likely do a check for slots to make sure that your AW is "appraised" if you will, on rarity and you would get the deed + an extra prize, maybe a tamer artifact or something to sweeten the deal.

The incentive behind this is to create a pet that is the same all around. With all the different versions of AWs around (like 7), it gets confusing as to what exactly IS a tameable ancient wyrm. It's even harder to balance out new and old ancient wyrms because each type requires changes in their own ways (Some need to be raised, some need to be lowered) which is very hard to pull off successfully on prepatched tames.

Instead of nerfing and upping all the existing aws of all different kinds, we're planning on going a different route with the 5-slot dragons and introduce a pet transfer system instead of messing around with existing pets with the possibility of once again, adding fuel to the fire.

I see your reasoning behind the 3-slot variety. The fact that they are 3 slots makes them appealing. The 3 slot versions would be the hardest to apply this to as logically, a 3 slot ancient wyrm being weaker than a 5 slot greater dragon does not make sense and likewise, a powerful 3 slot aw does not make sense compared to a weaker 5 slot greater dragon. The amount of slots a pet takes would have to match its power and abilities. If you or anyone else have a good idea or any possible solutions to that scenario, feel free to talk about them.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3274, old post ID:20890

[jrhather]

So if I turn in my 3 Slot AWs, I get a PBD to replace them with a 5 slot mob? I arrived after 3 slotters were gone, I traded for these 3 slotters, hardly seems fair.

Why would I want to turn in my AWs with really high Resist spells and Insciption for a pet that doesnt have the same bonuses?

These are just 2 things that come to mind. I'm not saying that 5 slot dragons are a bad idea, I'm just saying you should be very wary about nuking all of one type of pet. I mean there are reasons 3 slot AWs were not nuked when 5 slotters came out, etc.

I suggest keeping them regardless.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3274, old post ID:20914

[Death]

I suggest keeping them regardless.

We'd have to think of a solution for 3-slot versions that's beneficial for those who have the 3 slot versions. But if the 5 slot ones go, the 3 slots would have to follow as well. There would likely need to be a worthwhile 3 slot pet to fill the void or some other incentive.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3274, old post ID:20917

[jrhather]

I suggest keeping them regardless.

We'd have to think of a solution for 3-slot versions that's beneficial for those who have the 3 slot versions. But if the 5 slot ones go, the 3 slots would have to follow as well. There would likely need to be a worthwhile 3 slot pet to fill the void or some other incentive.

Give him a perfect reptalon or hiryu of his color choice. that should do the trick

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3274, old post ID:20920

[Death]

Give him a perfect reptalon or hiryu of his color choice. that should do the trick

Would have to be a 3 slot pet to match if that's the case.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3274, old post ID:20921

[jrhather]

Give him a perfect reptalon or hiryu of his color choice. that should do the trick

Would have to be a 3 slot pet to match if that's the case.

so make it 3 slots.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3274, old post ID:20923

[Red Squirrel]

For 3 slot AWs, 1 5 slot super dragon + 2 pet bonding deeds instead of 1, or something.

Don't want to give anything out of orinary as its the whole idea behind this, we want to get rid of the "out of ordinary" to begin with.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3274, old post ID:20925

[Death]

Give him a perfect reptalon or hiryu of his color choice. that should do the trick

Would have to be a 3 slot pet to match if that's the case.

so make it 3 slots.

Reptalon/Cu-Sidhe will always be 4 slots and never 3. Changing them to 3 would be doing AWs over again. Regular dragons on the other hand......

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3274, old post ID:20927

[Plastic Man]

Id settle for a Bonded 5 slot Dragon + A Pet that already exists of my choice XD Like if you wanted to give me a 5 slot Drag and a black Uni for the 3 slotter Id be ok with it XD (Well the 3 slot AWs are almost as rare lol)

Seriously tho, I have no idea what would be fair tbh, just 5 slot drag for the 3 slotters that I run my Nox Equeus fire steed or a mare with just doesnt seem quit on point either. XD

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3274, old post ID:20940

[jrhather]

Id settle for a Bonded 5 slot Dragon + A Pet that already exists of my choice XD Like if you wanted to give me a 5 slot Drag and a black Uni for the 3 slotter Id be ok with it XD (Well the 3 slot AWs are almost as rare lol)

Seriously tho, I have no idea what would be fair tbh, just 5 slot drag for the 3 slotters that I run my Nox Equeus fire steed or a mare with just doesnt seem quit on point either. XD

no shit...

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3274, old post ID:20943

[Death]

The goal here is not to screw anyone over. I know you guys want to keep your 3 slot pets but at the same time, we want to create a substitute to the aws because they just keep causing issues because they were changed so many times.

Off the top of my head I'm thinking a full or almost full stat regular dragon (Or white wyrm) as well as the deed to bond a new 5-slot dragon (So you'd be getting 2 pets for one AW).

There's also the possibility of giving a sand wyrm or blood wyrm. These will be reintroduced as 3 slot equivalents to dragons with different abilities but time is a depending factor on if these will be created, planned and released around the same time as the 5-slot dragons (If they are actually a GO that is).

These are just a few ideas. If you have any other ideas, feel free to share them.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3274, old post ID:20945

[jrhather]

The goal here is not to screw anyone over. I know you guys want to keep your 3 slot pets but at the same time, we want to create a substitute to the aws because they just keep causing issues because they were changed so many times.

Off the top of my head I'm thinking a full or almost full stat regular dragon (Or white wyrm) as well as the deed to bond a new 5-slot dragon (So you'd be getting 2 pets for one AW).

There's also the possibility of giving a sand wyrm or blood wyrm. These will be reintroduced as 3 slot equivalents to dragons with different abilities but time is a depending factor on if these will be created, planned and released around the same time as the 5-slot dragons (If they are actually a GO that is).

These are just a few ideas. If you have any other ideas, feel free to share them.

I, personally, would take a full stat crystal dragon in place. or a team of full stat hounds.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3274, old post ID:20947

[Plastic Man]

Problem is I already have almost max stat drags, so that wouldnt really be any encouragement, maybe the sand blood or fire dragon idea tho (Are Fire Wyrms being reintroduces as well?)

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3274, old post ID:20949

[Death]

Problem is I already have almost max stat drags, so that wouldnt really be any encouragement, maybe the sand blood or fire dragon idea tho (Are Fire Wyrms being reintroduces as well?)

Fire wyrms are also being re-introduced. I don't have any objections in the possibility of another 5 slot pet (Not maxed stats though) but a 3-slot pet to fill the void of the AW is the idea.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3274, old post ID:20950

[dprantl]

And that's why there is caps If people could hit 200-300+ damage per hit it would be completely unfair for "normal" people who hit 100ish per hit with slayers and maxed out suits. The line has to be drawn somewhere. We are often forced to make bosses harder because of the fact that it's possible to hit so high but that makes it unfair for the ones that hit what is to be considered normal damage. So the caps help balance that out a bit.

Unfair that some people can do that damage? Come on, that's a silly argument. Not any different than saying it's unfair that that guy over there has a totem and this other guy doesn't... It's not like those people hitting so hard have something that cannot be attained by the "normal" players.

So let's see... OSI has easier AI and greater damage output for PvM'ers, and 2k HP greater dragons while UOV has much harder AI, less damage output for PvM'ers and only 800 HP greater dragons. Are you saying PvM on OSI is too easy? This is why "that other shard" gets so many players; the promise that reads "the only thing closer to OSI is OSI". Of course it's totally wrong, but you see my point? I'm not saying that everything on OSI is super great, but it really is in cases like these.

Seriously, do you watch people play and get mad when you see them doing something that you determine is "too easy"? Why is that? It's a game, and it's supposed to be fun. And no, I'm not saying everything should be as easy as a mongbat and arties should drop in my pack every second. Doing a 180dmg EB on my mage on a mob with 30k HP that can insta-kill me at any moment if it pulls of the right combo is hardly what I would call easy. And maybe after 30-40 minutes after a bunch of deaths and intense concentration and tactics when I manage to kill that mob with that kind of damage output, you are saying that's easy? When with the current setup it would take at least 2 hours of the same. I can hear it already, those things are not meant to be soloed. But they can be on OSI, right? Is that really such a bad thing?

Saying "oh yeah, those dragons are overpowered and some time in the future OSI will nerf them" is a really bad reason to nerf them here in advance. It's kinda like going *smack* there I hit you back first, I knew you would hit me. You can easily make them the way they are supposed to be and say just to let you know if OSI nerfs them, we will follow suit so don't be mad if it happens.

It's a good thing I don't drink, otherwise my post may be filled with expletives like Doc's

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3274, old post ID:20952

[Plastic Man]

And that's why there is caps If people could hit 200-300+ damage per hit it would be completely unfair for "normal" people who hit 100ish per hit with slayers and maxed out suits. The line has to be drawn somewhere. We are often forced to make bosses harder because of the fact that it's possible to hit so high but that makes it unfair for the ones that hit what is to be considered normal damage. So the caps help balance that out a bit.

Unfair that some people can do that damage? Come on, that's a silly argument. Not any different than saying it's unfair that that guy over there has a totem and this other guy doesn't... It's not like those people hitting so hard have something that cannot be attained by the "normal" players.

So let's see... OSI has easier AI and greater damage output for PvM'ers, and 2k HP greater dragons while UOV has much harder AI, less damage output for PvM'ers and only 800 HP greater dragons. Are you saying PvM on OSI is too easy? This is why "that other shard" gets so many players; the promise that reads "the only thing closer to OSI is OSI". Of course it's totally wrong, but you see my point? I'm not saying that everything on OSI is super great, but it really is in cases like these.

Seriously, do you watch people play and get mad when you see them doing something that you determine is "too easy"? Why is that? It's a game, and it's supposed to be fun. And no, I'm not saying everything should be as easy as a mongbat and arties should drop in my pack every second. Doing a 180dmg EB on my mage on a mob with 30k HP that can insta-kill me at any moment if it pulls of the right combo is hardly what I would call easy. And maybe after 30-40 minutes after a bunch of deaths and intense concentration and tactics when I manage to kill that mob with that kind of damage output, you are saying that's easy? When with the current setup it would take at least 2 hours of the same. I can hear it already, those things are not meant to be soloed. But they can be on OSI, right? Is that really such a bad thing?

Saying "oh yeah, those dragons are overpowered and some time in the future OSI will nerf them" is a really bad reason to nerf them here in advance. It's kinda like going *smack* there I hit you back first, I knew you would hit me. You can easily make them the way they are supposed to be and say just to let you know if OSI nerfs them, we will follow suit so don't be mad if it happens.

It's a good think I don't drink, otherwise my post may be filled with expletives like Doc's

QFT

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3274, old post ID:20954

[Plastic Man]

The best 3 slot dragon Ive tamed on AoV still has just over 300 less Str, 350 less mana, no scribe, 250 less HP. So Im thinking even a max stat 3 slot drag wouldn't quite be appropriate. Just saying. Personally I wouldnt want one because I already have pretty good ones tamed.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3274, old post ID:20956

[Death]

Unfair that some people can do that damage? Come on, that's a silly argument. Not any different than saying it's unfair that that guy over there has a totem and this other guy doesn't... It's not like those people hitting so hard have something that cannot be attained by the "normal" players.

So let's see... OSI has easier AI and greater damage output for PvM'ers, and 2k HP greater dragons while UOV has much harder AI, less damage output for PvM'ers and only 800 HP greater dragons. Are you saying PvM on OSI is too easy? This is why "that other shard" gets so many players; the promise that reads "the only thing closer to OSI is OSI". Of course it's totally wrong, but you see my point? I'm not saying that everything on OSI is super great, but it really is in cases like these.

Seriously, do you watch people play and get mad when you see them doing something that you determine is "too easy"? Why is that? It's a game, and it's supposed to be fun. And no, I'm not saying everything should be as easy as a mongbat and arties should drop in my pack every second. Doing a 180dmg EB on my mage on a mob with 30k HP that can insta-kill me at any moment if it pulls of the right combo is hardly what I would call easy. And maybe after 30-40 minutes after a bunch of deaths and intense concentration and tactics when I manage to kill that mob with that kind of damage output, you are saying that's easy? When with the current setup it would take at least 2 hours of the same. I can hear it already, those things are not meant to be soloed. But they can be on OSI, right? Is that really such a bad thing?

Saying "oh yeah, those dragons are overpowered and some time in the future OSI will nerf them" is a really bad reason to nerf them here in advance. It's kinda like going *smack* there I hit you back first, I knew you would hit me. You can easily make them the way they are supposed to be and say just to let you know if OSI nerfs them, we will follow suit so don't be mad if it happens.

It's a good think I don't drink, otherwise my post may be filled with expletives like Doc's

OSI has done a lot of things recently to hurt the game by appealing to players. Just because you get more players, doesn't mean it's a good thing (From OSI's point, it's all to make cash).

OSI screwed up a bunch of things to appeal to players such as armor sets and all these bloody artifacts. If you played a pre-aos ultima when things were balanced, you might think otherwise that not every addition is a good addition.

Things that were meant for a group should take a group. Sure you can solo it, if you're good. Soloing on gimp tactics is as pointless as playing doom with invulnerability on. Many areas in the game are hella easy. Gauntlet, champions, named creatures. An experienced player can do laps in those areas without even dying. Likewise, to balance gameplay there's hard things.

I'm a believer in challenge areas. Once you're good and beefed up, head to the harder areas. Don't go there to start off thinking you can solo. If it was meant to be hard, it should be hard. Without a good ratio or easy to hard, it's like playing 24 levels of super mario, cept it's always level one, just rearranged differently.

Also, AOV has more artifacts and items to boost your stats, different setup of skills and caps and a ton of special perks to help speed along the killing, not to mention that although our AI may be smarter, the lesser creatures are still easy as pie because their intensity of spellcasting blows.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3274, old post ID:20957

[Red Squirrel]

And that's why there is caps If people could hit 200-300+ damage per hit it would be completely unfair for "normal" people who hit 100ish per hit with slayers and maxed out suits. The line has to be drawn somewhere. We are often forced to make bosses harder because of the fact that it's possible to hit so high but that makes it unfair for the ones that hit what is to be considered normal damage. So the caps help balance that out a bit.

Unfair that some people can do that damage? Come on, that's a silly argument. Not any different than saying it's unfair that that guy over there has a totem and this other guy doesn't... It's not like those people hitting so hard have something that cannot be attained by the "normal" players.

So let's see... OSI has easier AI and greater damage output for PvM'ers, and 2k HP greater dragons while UOV has much harder AI, less damage output for PvM'ers and only 800 HP greater dragons. Are you saying PvM on OSI is too easy? This is why "that other shard" gets so many players; the promise that reads "the only thing closer to OSI is OSI". Of course it's totally wrong, but you see my point? I'm not saying that everything on OSI is super great, but it really is in cases like these.

Seriously, do you watch people play and get mad when you see them doing something that you determine is "too easy"? Why is that? It's a game, and it's supposed to be fun. And no, I'm not saying everything should be as easy as a mongbat and arties should drop in my pack every second. Doing a 180dmg EB on my mage on a mob with 30k HP that can insta-kill me at any moment if it pulls of the right combo is hardly what I would call easy. And maybe after 30-40 minutes after a bunch of deaths and intense concentration and tactics when I manage to kill that mob with that kind of damage output, you are saying that's easy? When with the current setup it would take at least 2 hours of the same. I can hear it already, those things are not meant to be soloed. But they can be on OSI, right? Is that really such a bad thing?

Saying "oh yeah, those dragons are overpowered and some time in the future OSI will nerf them" is a really bad reason to nerf them here in advance. It's kinda like going *smack* there I hit you back first, I knew you would hit me. You can easily make them the way they are supposed to be and say just to let you know if OSI nerfs them, we will follow suit so don't be mad if it happens.

It's a good thing I don't drink, otherwise my post may be filled with expletives like Doc's

If we allow a 1k+ pet into the game, it will mean we'll need to make bosses 2x as strong to compete against that, making it completely unfair for non tamer classes.

People need to realize that even a tamer needs to have to work for their stuff. Having a pet that does not require to heal is not considered working.

Ever use a cheat in a game? After a while you get bored of it. Well same thing with this. If we make everything super easy it will get boring.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3274, old post ID:20958

[dprantl]

If we allow a 1k+ pet into the game, it will mean we'll need to make bosses 2x as strong to compete against that, making it completely unfair for non tamer classes.

People need to realize that even a tamer needs to have to work for their stuff. Having a pet that does not require to heal is not considered working.

Ever use a cheat in a game? After a while you get bored of it. Well same thing with this. If we make everything super easy it will get boring.

So you're saying on OSI since there are 1k+ pets and do not have bosses 2x as strong, it's way too easy for tamers and it's really really unfair to everyone else and tamers don't have to work for anything?

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3274, old post ID:20962

[Apple Puff]

you could make the G dragons look like serpentine dragons

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3274, old post ID:20966

[Red Squirrel]

If we allow a 1k+ pet into the game, it will mean we'll need to make bosses 2x as strong to compete against that, making it completely unfair for non tamer classes.

People need to realize that even a tamer needs to have to work for their stuff. Having a pet that does not require to heal is not considered working.

Ever use a cheat in a game? After a while you get bored of it. Well same thing with this. If we make everything super easy it will get boring.

So you're saying on OSI since there are 1k+ pets and do not have bosses 2x as strong, it's way too easy for tamers and it's really really unfair to everyone else and tamers don't have to work for anything?

You have to remember, on OSI mobs hit harder, WAY harder. (melee wise). Even on Demise they hit harder - same char, same template and if I let one touch me I was pretty much dead. I accidentally lowered it on this shard a while back and when I fixed it there was too many complaints that stuff was hitting too hard.

This is why here you can tank a paragon balron with your eyes closed, but try that on OSI.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3274, old post ID:20974

[dprantl]

You have to remember, on OSI mobs hit harder, WAY harder. (melee wise). Even on Demise they hit harder - same char, same template and if I let one touch me I was pretty much dead. I accidentally lowered it on this shard a while back and when I fixed it there was too many complaints that stuff was hitting too hard.

This is why here you can tank a paragon balron with your eyes closed, but try that on OSI.

Well, now *that* I did not know, and I've been reading these forums for over a year. Maybe the mobs should hit harder here so that all these other things don't need to be modified to compensate?

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3274, old post ID:20983

[Death]

Well, now *that* I did not know, and I've been reading these forums for over a year. Maybe the mobs should hit harder here so that all these other things don't need to be modified to compensate?

Ya, back when red did weapon calculation changes there were a few monsters that got the axe damage wise (Assasins were one of them, they did like 8 damage). That being said their melee was softer than it should have been (Balrons were another culprit).

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3274, old post ID:20986