overpowred weapons

Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:15 pm

I want to be sure there's nothing out there that's too overpowered, so if anyone thinks a certain weapon is too overpowered, discuss here. This is restricted to custom stuff, OSI stuff will stay as is, simply to remain order. I rather not change stuff that's preexisting in the game simply to keep order. When deciding if something is overpowered compare it with OSI weps to see if it really is. Also consider things like caps. DI is capped at 100 in items, so 100DI on a wep is actually not as overpowered as it seems, considering sword of the stampede and some other OSI weps have like 60DI, and with items it's possible to hit 100 from there. Though if a wep has 100 DI it should not have too many other mods.

Also keep in mind the rarity. A greater AoA is much harder to get than a lesser. I'd like to get some discussions going and if enough people agree on certain items being overpowered I can fix them. I try as much as possible to stay reasonable with customs, and don't want to go too overboard.

Also discuss if any pets may be overpowered.

I don't like nerfing stuff, specially if lot of people use it though, but if enough agree I can come up with a solution so everyone is happy, like allowing prepatch items etc.

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Death · Post by **Death** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:01 am

Red Squirrel wrote:I want to be sure there's nothing out there that's too overpowered, so if anyone thinks a certain weapon is too overpowered, discuss here. This is restricted to custom stuff, OSI stuff will stay as is, simply to remain order. I rather not change stuff that's preexisting in the game simply to keep order. When deciding if something is overpowered compare it with OSI weps to see if it really is. Also consider things like caps. DI is capped at 100 in items, so 100DI on a wep is actually not as overpowered as it seems, considering sword of the stampede and some other OSI weps have like 60DI, and with items it's possible to hit 100 from there. Though if a wep has 100 DI it should not have too many other mods.

Also keep in mind the rarity. A greater AoA is much harder to get than a lesser. I'd like to get some discussions going and if enough people agree on certain items being overpowered I can fix them. I try as much as possible to stay reasonable with customs, and don't want to go too overboard.

Also discuss if any pets may be overpowered.

I don't like nerfing stuff, specially if lot of people use it though, but if enough agree I can come up with a solution so everyone is happy, like allowing prepatch items etc.

I can give you a run down of which items and which weapons might be overpowered. The key note to any weapon or armor is to ensure that it has balance. Armor for example: if it has insane mods, reduce the resists. For weapons: If it has high power, reduce the swing speed. I don't have a complete listing of the new weapons/armor so I would have to see them before I can give an opinion. Locking them all down on a base would be a good way to get feedback from players (They can see the mods). Also, testing it with different templates is another option.

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DOCTOR THUNDER · Post by **DOCTOR THUNDER** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:10 am

and also take into account which specials a weapon has. Something like bleed, infect, disarm, AI, mortal, concussion... those are very good specials.

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Gaiava Arkkaza · Post by **Gaiava Arkkaza** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:49 am

Claw of Humus the fire guardian, I know this one is a bit overpowered, Its previous version was a tad monstrous though, since It had 100% fireball and mana leech.
My suggestion: Instead of fully nerfing it, give it a chance of having SSI OR Hit fireball. If It gets SSI, reduce the DI.

Deathspell, specials. If you get lucky, a deathspell can do something like... 10, 12, 7, 15, 15, 10 in a single concussion. Thats 69 damage right there.
My suggestion: Completely removing the SSI from this weapon. In other hand, to compensate this loss, make it have a chance of having 40% chance on one of the hit spells. Or change the deathspell to be a... hmm... viking sword?

Apocalyptica, hit spell and specials. Even though a 100 hit fireball Apocalyptica cant parablow, it can mortal and do retarded damage per hit, specially if you add curse or corpse skin there.
My suggestion: Remove SSI and reduce the hit spell to something arround 60%.

Salamando's Soul: It has two hit spells, 100% fire damage, high SSI and DI.
My suggestion: Remove the SSI and put the fire damage to 50%.

Searing Pain: AI + 50% DI, LMC and 30 ssi with HCI? O_o
My suggestion: Remove DI completely.

Noobmage Lightblade: 100% Hit lighting plus nerve strike and feint, nasty.
My suggestion: Reduce the hit lighting to 40-55%.

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Chili · Post by **Chili** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:10 pm

Nerf the stuff blacksmiths sell.

For serious.

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dprantl · Post by **dprantl** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:21 pm

Gaiava Arkkaza wrote:Claw of Humus the fire guardian, I know this one is a bit overpowered, Its previous version was a tad monstrous though, since It had 100% fireball and mana leech.
My suggestion: Instead of fully nerfing it, give it a chance of having SSI OR Hit fireball. If It gets SSI, reduce the DI.

Deathspell, specials. If you get lucky, a deathspell can do something like... 10, 12, 7, 15, 15, 10 in a single concussion. Thats 69 damage right there.
My suggestion: Completely removing the SSI from this weapon. In other hand, to compensate this loss, make it have a chance of having 40% chance on one of the hit spells. Or change the deathspell to be a... hmm... viking sword?

Apocalyptica, hit spell and specials. Even though a 100 hit fireball Apocalyptica cant parablow, it can mortal and do retarded damage per hit, specially if you add curse or corpse skin there.
My suggestion: Remove SSI and reduce the hit spell to something arround 60%.

Salamando's Soul: It has two hit spells, 100% fire damage, high SSI and DI.
My suggestion: Remove the SSI and put the fire damage to 50%.

Searing Pain: AI + 50% DI, LMC and 30 ssi with HCI? O_o
My suggestion: Remove DI completely.

Noobmage Lightblade: 100% Hit lighting plus nerve strike and feint, nasty.
My suggestion: Reduce the hit lighting to 40-55%.

Hmm, that seems like way too much nerf on everything. Based on the above I think if i.e. sword of the stampede never existed on OSI and was created here you would surely make it a candidate for nerfing. Apocalyptica would become worse than a dryad bow, or even a good runic bow. No offense, but I think a little less nerfing should be going on. And btw, I don't use any of the items on that list.

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DOCTOR THUNDER · Post by **DOCTOR THUNDER** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:41 pm

IMHumbleO, anything with hit spells over 50%, Leeches over 50%, SSI over 30%, and/or DI over 50% should be looked at and reviewed. Unless you increase the max SDI a mage can use in pvp, the dexxer items are unbalanced.

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 7:52 pm

well leeches tend to not leech a big enough chunk when it leeches (% is chance to leech, not amount) so think those are fine, but yeah hit spells is mostly what I'm wanting to change. Specially on ranged weapons.

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Death · Post by **Death** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:07 pm

Red Squirrel wrote:well leeches tend to not leech a big enough chunk when it leeches (% is chance to leech, not amount) so think those are fine, but yeah hit spells is mostly what I'm wanting to change. Specially on ranged weapons.

It's the double hit spells or the really high hit spells that are causing the imbalance I think. Humus claw has what? 2 hit spells? Not to mention it's one of the deadlier PVP weps available. An executioner's axe has sick pvp specials (Mortal and bleed are a mage's bane). You should review the specials an item has and change them accordingly (For example, a weapon with double hit spells should never have concussion blow, paralyzing blow or AI).

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Finlander · Post by **Finlander** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 8:23 am

well i dont know but i think theres something bit fishy going on when pure archer wep does less dmg than mage/archery wep (apocalyptica vs. the void) and i dont think it should be that way

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Death · Post by **Death** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 11:56 am

Finlander wrote:well i dont know but i think theres something bit fishy going on when pure archer wep does less dmg than mage/archery wep (apocalyptica vs. the void) and i dont think it should be that way

That has to do with the SDI items mages carry along in their suits. Hit spells are greatly affected by SDI items, and that's a common item in a mage's suit (SDI 15 is very common for a mage). Therefore a mage wielding a bow with hit spell will have a higher advantage against an archer holding the bow unless the archer has SDI.

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:28 pm

Actually a SC wep should not even have hit spell at a high intensity, come to think of it.

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Gaiava Arkkaza · Post by **Gaiava Arkkaza** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:03 pm

In other hand, a decent dexxer will hit every so 1.50 seconds, while an archer hits about each 2.50.

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Finlander · Post by **Finlander** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:51 pm

Bartok wrote:
Finlander wrote:well i dont know but i think theres something bit fishy going on when pure archer wep does less dmg than mage/archery wep (apocalyptica vs. the void) and i dont think it should be that way
That has to do with the SDI items mages carry along in their suits. Hit spells are greatly affected by SDI items, and that's a common item in a mage's suit (SDI 15 is very common for a mage). Therefore a mage wielding a bow with hit spell will have a higher advantage against an archer holding the bow unless the archer has SDI.

well wasnt that exactly what i ment?

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Death · Post by **Death** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:32 pm

Gaiava Arkkaza wrote:In other hand, a decent dexxer will hit every so 1.50 seconds, while an archer hits about each 2.50.

That's not a good comparison as a melee person is required to keep up with their opponent to attack, and that's not the easiest thing to do in the field. An archer can run, pause and shoot.

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dprantl · Post by **dprantl** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:36 pm

Finlander wrote:
Bartok wrote:
Finlander wrote:well i dont know but i think theres something bit fishy going on when pure archer wep does less dmg than mage/archery wep (apocalyptica vs. the void) and i dont think it should be that way
That has to do with the SDI items mages carry along in their suits. Hit spells are greatly affected by SDI items, and that's a common item in a mage's suit (SDI 15 is very common for a mage). Therefore a mage wielding a bow with hit spell will have a higher advantage against an archer holding the bow unless the archer has SDI.
well wasnt that exactly what i ment?

I don't see what spell channeling has to do with it. What is stopping an archer from using an Apocalyptica? What is stopping an archer from having SDI? And The Void has HCI which is a big plus.

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Death · Post by **Death** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:43 pm

dprantl wrote: I don't see what spell channeling has to do with it. What is stopping an archer from using an Apocalyptica? What is stopping an archer from having SDI? And The Void has HCI which is a big plus.

Don't think I mentionned anything about spell chanelling and what I was saying is the SDI ("Spell damage increase") mages would normally have so that they could do more damage with their spells. An archer's suit would most likely have HCI/DCI, dex bonuses and LMC. Nothing is stopping an archer from having SDI, I'm just saying most archers would use that space for other properties.

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:48 pm

Yeah SC basically indicates it's a mage bow, does not need only a mage will use it but in general, it will probably be the case.

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Finlander · Post by **Finlander** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 3:56 pm

Red Squirrel wrote:Yeah SC basically indicates it's a mage bow.

Exactly mister.

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dprantl · Post by **dprantl** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 4:17 pm

Sure, that's just fine. But since it doesn't stop any other template from using it, I don't see any problem there. If spellchanneling meant it could only be used by mages, then there would be a problem...

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Gaiava Arkkaza · Post by **Gaiava Arkkaza** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 5:29 pm

Sorry, I meant mage, not archer

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Finlander · Post by **Finlander** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 10:31 am

dprantl wrote:Sure, that's just fine. But since it doesn't stop any other template from using it, I don't see any problem there. If spellchanneling meant it could only be used by mages, then there would be a problem...

well whats the profit to be pure archer when it comes to weps if mage can use same wep?

And yes the sc is a problem since it can be used by mages also, and its better than the bows what mages cannot use, it makes absolutly no sence at all when you think of it

and this is what i think, you can think whatever you want but this is my oppinion, and iam not talking about sc weapons in general iam talking about the void vs apocalyptica

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Lymus · Post by **Lymus** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 12:31 pm

Honestly, I've found that arrow shots aren't delayed by an MA spam.

At least, it doesn't seem to be delayed with Garlic does it.

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:06 pm

Oh it is. It's exactly why I can't survive it. It just totally shuts down your shooting, so you can try to para blow or w/e so you can cast something, but good luck doing that when your shooting rate is now 5 secs. Even 30ish stam regen won't cut it at that point.

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dprantl · Post by **dprantl** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 3:46 pm

Finlander wrote:
dprantl wrote:Sure, that's just fine. But since it doesn't stop any other template from using it, I don't see any problem there. If spellchanneling meant it could only be used by mages, then there would be a problem...
well whats the profit to be pure archer when it comes to weps if mage can use same wep?

And yes the sc is a problem since it can be used by mages also, and its better than the bows what mages cannot use, it makes absolutly no sence at all when you think of it

and this is what i think, you can think whatever you want but this is my oppinion, and iam not talking about sc weapons in general iam talking about the void vs apocalyptica

Sure, no animosity here, just a discussion.

So what's the profit to be an archer? Max stamina regen, max stamina, max HCI. A mage will never have this. Archer will *always* shoot much faster than a mage, and will usually hit more often. For a mage to match this they will have to sacrifice some parts of being a mage. That's why The Void has HCI. In a damage comparison over a set period of time from a mage shooting an Apocalyptica vs an archer shooting The Void, the archer will win because he shoots faster and hits more often.

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