Courels

Plastic Man · Post by **Plastic Man** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:34 pm

While running the gaunt the other day with my courels, a friend of mine was running a pack of jackals. Now as we progressed he was kinda letting me know how much his jackals were hitting for each on each of the different critters. And it seemed to me and him that my courels, whole they did alright and a pretty good against one or two, they had no more damage output and nowhere near the tanking ability of an AW, and they were squarely left in the dust by the jackals in terms od damage output. Not only in terms of amount of damage output (Which is the reason to use a pack) but the jackals died about as many times put together as a 5 member pack as my pair of courels.

Now, I understand that courels have special abilitys that the jackals(I use jackals as an example, but it applys to other 1 slot packs too) don't, but the fact is that these special abilitys don't make up for some severe disadvantage of not gleening that full pack advantage or the power of numbers. I mean, one of my courels dies and not only do I lose his damage output but the live one loses all the pack instinct bonuses, therefor making it far more vulnerable.

From what I understand it is the ability to cast spells mainly which keeps courels 2 slots. So what I am suggesting:

A) Remove magery, perhaps lower the chance for petrify some as well, and Make Courels 1 slot. Keep the stats and resists the same (they already have pretty severe poisin weakness, and their str is not nearly as high as jackals).

Buf the physical stats (not Hitpoints though) of the Courels but still keep them lower than a mare for sure (I was thinking somewhere around 330-430 str) and increase their resists 5% across the board (Possible with the exception of energy). This would up their damage out put and make them less vulnerable when their partner dies, but they still have the fairly low HP which makes them vulnerable.

C) Leave them alone and let them rot at the back of the bestiary as one of the least used pets, because no one wnats to res both pets after every other battle.

D) Create both Option A and B and let people decide for themselves which type of pack they want to run.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2507, old post ID:15916

sliptongue69 · Post by **sliptongue69** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:54 pm

Well. That's just the way it is. Gotta pick and choose your pets to your desire. They are what they are. There are also Black Jackals which are a bigger form of coerls basically. Except they take 4 slots.

If anything, then maybe there could be a stronger/faster form of the "large hell cat" that have no specials/magery or anything but pure melee, like jackals. Call 'em Cougars or something.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2507, old post ID:15917

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:06 pm

Since courels can insta skill humans, I wouldn't want people having more then two of them unless the percent is changed accordingly.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2507, old post ID:15922

Death · Post by **Death** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:27 pm

Damien wrote:Since courels can insta skill humans, I wouldn't want people having more then two of them unless the percent is changed accordingly.

That is exactly why they will remain 2 slots. The strength can likely be bumped up to give them a bit more damage potential and some of the other stats can be bumped as well but you're basically getting a pack instinct pet with high energy damage which is highly useful against certain monsters but certainly not all of them.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2507, old post ID:15927

Plastic Man · Post by **Plastic Man** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:34 pm

Damien That is why I said with LOWERED Chance of insta kill(IE Petrify) to take into acocunt there could be more. Read before you post FTW.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2507, old post ID:15931

Death · Post by **Death** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:37 pm

Plastic Man wrote:Damien That is why I said with LOWERED Chance of insta kill(IE Petrify) to take into acocunt there could be more. Read before you post FTW.

Coeurls can also petrify by thought which makes more than 2 a lot more dangerous. Althought the chance is low, when you multiply your odds by 5 more mobiles, it does stack quite a considerable amount.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2507, old post ID:15934

Plastic Man · Post by **Plastic Man** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:47 pm

And Death, yes they are useful against certain things, kinda, but certainly not more useful than any 5 single slot pack I have seen against ANY boss, that I have found (And the only ones I have yet to try them on are some of the champs [but tamers generally dont do champs anyhow] Parax, DH, Grizzle, and the submersia peerless) they ones that are weak against energy eat pets as a nice snack before breakfast.

I mean as they are now, as much as I love my cats, but they sit at the back of my lineup. The only reason I bring them out at all is because i like their concept, their delivery just plain sucks. They deal a little less damage than my holy war horses and can't tank nearly as well by any stretch.

All I'm asking is that we make them a viable pet for most circumstances (An AW can tank pretty much anything, Jackals can rape pretty much anything, not just "some things"). Not everyone out there likes dogs (I infact detest them, in game, and IRL), not every one wants the same boriing old AW aka huge tank, that everyone uses. And whats to say that there cant be another option for people to use in almsot every circumstance? There's plenty of other pets that EVERYONE has because they can handle most situations. Why not Courels?

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2507, old post ID:15936

Death · Post by **Death** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:54 pm

Plastic Man wrote:And Death, yes they are useful against certain things, kinda, but certainly not more useful than any 5 single slot pack I have seen against ANY boss, that I have found (And the only ones I have yet to try them on are some of the champs [but tamers generally dont do champs anyhow] Parax, DH, Grizzle, and the submersia peerless) they ones that are weak against energy eat pets as a nice snack before breakfast.

I mean as they are now, as much as I love my cats, but they sit at the back of my lineup. The only reason I bring them out at all is because i like their concept, their delivery just plain sucks. They deal a little less damage than my holy war horses and can't tank nearly as well by any stretch.

All I'm asking is that we make them a viable pet for most circumstances (An AW can tank pretty much anything, Jackals can rape pretty much anything, not just "some things"). Not everyone out there likes dogs (I infact detest them, in game, and IRL), not every one wants the same boriing old AW aka huge tank, that everyone uses. And whats to say that there cant be another option for people to use in almsot every circumstance? There's plenty of other pets that EVERYONE has because they can handle most situations. Why not Courels?

I will analyze the damage potential of them and make changes accordingly. No ETA on this due to other projects but I will get to it eventually.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2507, old post ID:15939

Damien · Post by **Damien** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:02 pm

Plastic Man wrote:Damien That is why I said with LOWERED Chance of insta kill(IE Petrify) to take into acocunt there could be more. Read before you post FTW.

I was agreeing with that statement and wanted to emphasize it. Maybe you should think before you post?

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2507, old post ID:15940

Nexus Graveheart · Post by **Nexus Graveheart** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:46 pm

Plastic Man wrote: Parax, DH, Grizzle, and the submersia peerless) they ones that are weak against energy eat pets as a nice snack before breakfast.

Wouldn't recommend taking any pets to Parox...he likes to eat them.

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:57 pm

And when he does, his hp goes to full.

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Plastic Man · Post by **Plastic Man** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:40 pm

I realize that Parax eats pets, but I was adding him to the list to make it as complete as possible what iu have tested them against.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2507, old post ID:15980

Nosferatu · Post by **Nosferatu** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:24 pm

Seer Death wrote:
Plastic Man wrote:And Death, yes they are useful against certain things, kinda, but certainly not more useful than any 5 single slot pack I have seen against ANY boss, that I have found (And the only ones I have yet to try them on are some of the champs [but tamers generally dont do champs anyhow] Parax, DH, Grizzle, and the submersia peerless) they ones that are weak against energy eat pets as a nice snack before breakfast.

I mean as they are now, as much as I love my cats, but they sit at the back of my lineup. The only reason I bring them out at all is because i like their concept, their delivery just plain sucks. They deal a little less damage than my holy war horses and can't tank nearly as well by any stretch.

All I'm asking is that we make them a viable pet for most circumstances (An AW can tank pretty much anything, Jackals can rape pretty much anything, not just "some things"). Not everyone out there likes dogs (I infact detest them, in game, and IRL), not every one wants the same boriing old AW aka huge tank, that everyone uses. And whats to say that there cant be another option for people to use in almsot every circumstance? There's plenty of other pets that EVERYONE has because they can handle most situations. Why not Courels?
I will analyze the damage potential of them and make changes accordingly. No ETA on this due to other projects but I will get to it eventually.

I dont see the need if the majority vote is to leave them alone, besides on OSI do you see people using frenzid ostards in doom gaunt often? Do you see people using ki-rins and unicorns? Do you see people using new age yoshis on AOV a lot?

Not every animal is meant to be.

Reptalons were suppost to be god like animals on OSI, i tamed one of the first ones and thought it was the biggest dissapointment of a dragon the game has ever witnessed.

Not everything needs to be changed i played with a cu-sihde in doom not because it was strong but because it was fun and i was bored.

Lesser Hiryus arnt any good but why not?

Again not everything has to be as good as you want it.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2507, old post ID:16040

Death · Post by **Death** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:13 pm

I said I'd analyze. Does not mean I'll necessarily be changing things.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2507, old post ID:16043

Plastic Man · Post by **Plastic Man** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:00 pm

Nosferatu wrote:
Seer Death wrote:
Plastic Man wrote:And Death, yes they are useful against certain things, kinda, but certainly not more useful than any 5 single slot pack I have seen against ANY boss, that I have found (And the only ones I have yet to try them on are some of the champs [but tamers generally dont do champs anyhow] Parax, DH, Grizzle, and the submersia peerless) they ones that are weak against energy eat pets as a nice snack before breakfast.

I mean as they are now, as much as I love my cats, but they sit at the back of my lineup. The only reason I bring them out at all is because i like their concept, their delivery just plain sucks. They deal a little less damage than my holy war horses and can't tank nearly as well by any stretch.

All I'm asking is that we make them a viable pet for most circumstances (An AW can tank pretty much anything, Jackals can rape pretty much anything, not just "some things"). Not everyone out there likes dogs (I infact detest them, in game, and IRL), not every one wants the same boriing old AW aka huge tank, that everyone uses. And whats to say that there cant be another option for people to use in almsot every circumstance? There's plenty of other pets that EVERYONE has because they can handle most situations. Why not Courels?
I will analyze the damage potential of them and make changes accordingly. No ETA on this due to other projects but I will get to it eventually.
I dont see the need if the majority vote is to leave them alone, besides on OSI do you see people using frenzid ostards in doom gaunt often? Do you see people using ki-rins and unicorns? Do you see people using new age yoshis on AOV a lot?

Not every animal is meant to be.

Reptalons were suppost to be god like animals on OSI, i tamed one of the first ones and thought it was the biggest dissapointment of a dragon the game has ever witnessed.

Not everything needs to be changed i played with a cu-sihde in doom not because it was strong but because it was fun and i was bored.

Lesser Hiryus arnt any good but why not?

Again not everything has to be as good as you want it.

Except wait, the majority think there should be some type of change. only 44% said leave them alone. that means 56% thought that being changed in some way might be beneficial. (4 options only 1 was leave them alone.)

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2507, old post ID:16193

Death · Post by **Death** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:18 pm

In the way the poll was written, the intentions of the poll creator was to get them buffed because of those three options (Which is alright in a sense. Seems they feel strongly about getting them increased). However, to be fair, the one answer that states for them not to be changed should be weighted more.

Like I said earlier, I will analyze the coeurls and their moves and from there I'll make a descision based on fairness of the poll.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2507, old post ID:16200

Plastic Man · Post by **Plastic Man** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:03 am

I understand you are looking into them Death, it was directed at Nosferatu.

But what do you mean the one options where people vote not to change them shoudl be weighted more? That makes no sense. I mean I could have put up a general poll where one option is A) lets take a look at them and maybe do one fo these ideas or

do nothing and 5 people would vote lets take a 2nd look and 4 vote dont change. But instead I put up multiple ideas and so the people that dont want change get more weight? Thats confusing.

5 people woted for some type of possible change and 4 voted for none, thats all my last post was intended to state. I don't see how those 4 that voted to leave them alone should have anymore weight.

And to whoever said that some pets are just not meant to be, to put it plainly, you are wrong. A new option is not implemented to not be used. To bother putting somethign in a game you don't think people should use, is well, extra work for no real reason. Which is not something developers are known for. If they put it in the game I'm sure that they'd like someone to take an intrest and use their option. Infact when Ki-Rins and Unicorns were put in, they were widely used. It was simply that later additions overshadowed them.

And Courels, along with Jackals and a few other pets are unique to AoV. Most of the unique pets ARE used regularly. I know there are people that use yoshis still for instance. But Courels are not used very often (And most of the people that tamed them recently asked me where to get them, after I tamed my pair and talked about them in pub chat constantly

)

Now, I'm not saying I think Courels should be the endall beat everything pets. Far from it, I was just bringing up that this new shiny addition to UO brought to us by the wonderful staff at AoV, might need a little tweaking to be made feasible for general use. And as from what I've seen, I'm the only one that regularly uses these cool cats, I'd say I have a little first person experience on how balanced they are compared to other pets.

And I'll put it plainly. As it stands aside from my personal attachment to courels, theres really no reason to use them instead of any of my other pets in any area. I'll glady RPV the lack of damage output and survivability for anyone that cares to watch. I'll RPV a trip through Gaunt, A trip to destard, and a trip to Lady M (I know thats not everywhere, but if there is somewhere you'd like to see them that I didn't list let me know and I'll RPV that too.

And yea, I guess you could say I feel stongly about it death, but to be honest, I'm tried of Jackals, AWs, and Yoshis being all I see around. And I really, really, really don't like Canines, but I would love to have pack instinct pets. XD

Anyhow, this will probably be my last post on the subject otehr than perhaps a link to some RPVs.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2507, old post ID:16206