Masterpiece resources and weapons

[d.]

Let me start off by saying I think the idea behind masterpiece items is awesome, and I am a big fan of it. However, I haven't seen a single person on the server use a masterpiece weapon. Why is this? It is simple, as of right now, masterpiece weapons aren't worth making at all.

Here are my examples of why masterpiece items need to be improved.

Example A.
Lets say a smith does a few quests, gets a 50 charge aggapite hammer. With that hammer, they will most likely get a very nice weapon, 45% di (armslore) + 4 mods up to 100%, there will be something good out of that and it requires just a little work to do the quest.

Example B.
Lets say a pvmer spends months on the server killing all sorts of monsters and supremes to get masterpiece resources. They have to kill TONS of the higher end supremes and special things such as fabled net, levi, then getting blackhearts treaure etc. This would take an insane amount of time to do in order to get 50 of some of the good mods.

A crafted masterpiece weapon has at max 115 points. So, now the player can put on, lets say 50% hit lightning, 50% mana leech, 15% ssi.

The weapon dosen't even have damage increase like a runic, and can't be improved any further. Now, considering the months of farming masterpiece resources to make that weapon, it pales in comparison to runic items and loot. Staff rational behind it is: "but people get to pick the mods they want." Well, let me say this: just by doing smith quests or pvming gauntlet or peerless or demitels, you can easily get the props you want + more as loot, and it will take MUCH LESS time and work than making a masterpiece weapon. Also compare it to arties such as deathspell, the void, blackhole, etc, and masterpiece weapons are exponentially harder to make, and are nowhere near as good.

I think people will agrgee with me, as of right now masterpiece weapons, althouh a good idea, are majorly lacking to be worth it.
1- make masterpiece items start with 145-160 points
2- when crafted, make them start with DI bonus just like runics
3- make monster dropped masterpiece weapons start with 200 points
4- make a masterpiece resource that costs 1 point, but adds 2 points (to be able to increase the # of points to the max.
5- make an overall max of points usable on masterpiece weapons 225. When a masterpiece weapon is completely used up of all possible points (the base ammount + additional points to hit cap) it will be renamed to "A Masterpiece" and will recieve and random unique hue that can not be attained from tot/aoa dyes.

Ofcourse, not all 5 of these should be implemented, but I think something needs to be done to make masterpiece items worth the large amount of work to make a completed one.

Player and staff feedback are much appreciated. Please vote on the pole and post your ideas. Hopefully we can make masterpiece weapons viable.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2321, old post ID:14864

[onykage]

i totally agree. Altho my smith doesnt have armslore (didnt know it was needed) i do have 150 smith and i have yet to craft a single masterpiece weapon. Same goes for my fletcher (115). Also I have yet to drop a single masterpiece weapon from any supreme mob and ive killed several.

Also, why isnt there masterpiece armor, spellbooks or jewlery?

Now, I can totally understand where death will stand on this. He is tring to keep it from being exploited and used in pvp. I do have a suggestion for the pvp. Make pvp only in 1 area, say brit or ish. Being fel is where to get aoa,s and totu is where you get tots, and mala is a public area. That i believe would solve alot of problems with pvp, and if pvp is out of the way then it would be possible for people to obtain really killer items. Also, just like where you can not mark/recall in ish, make it so that the in the pvp area, these weapons/armor cannot be equiped or used.

this goes kinda where i was asking for a list of masterpiece weapons the other day, and the possibility for higher grade items to be unlocked with much higher crafting skills(150-200).

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2321, old post ID:14865

[Death]

The point system can probably be increased. Reason it is like it is right now is to ensure that it didn't go overboard and get overpowered. The idea was to test things out and gradually start making some alterations to the point system.

For the comparison to runics + loot, you are correct. Masterpiece items used to be a lot better until the runics + loot got that bump and trumped it so increasing its use is valid. Also, the rare resources haven't been in the game for that long so I haven't checked all scenarios to see if their points are adequate.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2321, old post ID:14868

[Death]

Also, why isnt there masterpiece armor, spellbooks or jewlery?

There are over 7 different layers of armor and if we give players full, 100% control over what's being put on them, that's asking for trouble. We have no idea what somebody could pull out if they decide on making a full suit. Jewelry is the same idea.

As for spellbooks, a lot of properties don't apply to spellbooks (ZOMG balanced spellbook. Or a UBWS spellbook and stuff) so they'd have to be put in as exceptions to that rule. Mage books would also need to spawn with a lower amount of points because you don't put DMI on a spellbook which is a good 25 points right there. You'd put on stuff like LRC, LMC, etc etc. For now I think it's best to leave them out until the system is working a decent amount, then we can decide later if we want to add them in.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2321, old post ID:14869

[d.]

Thanks for the feedback so far everyone. I totally agree with Death, it's better to start them out weak and improve them, rather than making them OP in the begining and then nerfing them and having people complain. I also agree, there shouldnt ever be masterpiece items other than weps. A wep were you have to work hard for it + decide what to be on it is plenty to complete and make a template good, armor suits have so many slots it's pretty easy to make an overall nice one for any character class.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2321, old post ID:14872

[Death]

Here's what I'm thinking for the new point system:

125 - 145 Crafting
145 - 165 Supremes
165 - 200 Peerless

At 125 points that's 50% DMI + 50% hit spell/leech + 50% hitspell/leech.

At 175 points, that's 50% DMI + 3 different 50% hit leech or items with 1 point which is very nice. Not to mention that some of the resources can surpass the caps.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2321, old post ID:14875

[d.]

that still seems a little low, especially since some people may not rely on DMI from their wep, and so that is only 3 and 1/2 mods total if you get a max one. I think they should atleast have 4-4.5 skills worth of points, that way even if you get the tons and tons of resources off all the monsters to make the weapon, it would'nt have everything in the world.

Compare it to these things:
-loot with 1500 luck, where you have a chance to get a 6th mod...usually when that happens all the mods are around 90-100%.
-valorite runic weps, which have 45% DI + 5 mods, 95-100% intensity, that's really 6 mods.
-chest of heirloom loot has the potential to get up to SEVEN MODS with OVER 100% intensity. (so if you get lucky, a single chest of heirlooms can grant you a God-like piece of jewelry or a weapon)
-Weapons such as deathspell, apocalyptica, maliku's right arm are some of the best weapons on the server, and it's quite possible that these artifact weapons are easily to get than just one +1% of a hit spell masterpiece resource, and resources such as "SC" and "balanced" and "ubw" are much rarer than these arties that already have mods like them.

I also think all masterpiece weps should come with the same # of points regardless of crafting, supreme, or peerless. If only the most points can be attained off peerless, it would be nearly impossible to find the right weapon you want off a peerless thats a masterpiece, and you wouldn't just settle for anything less because the mod resources are so rare.

If you look at those things, even allowing 5 mods on masterpiece weapons dosen't seem unreasonable, considering the number of countless days and months it would take to farm all of the masterpiece resources.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2321, old post ID:14880

[Death]

See that's the thing. If you wanted to, you could add 18 mods to a masterpiece weapon, nothing's going to stop you from doing that. Thing is, the more mods you put on, the more points you will lose out on so the less mods you'll be able to max out.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2321, old post ID:14881

[d.]

yea, but an 18 mod weapon wont be effective at all =p.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2321, old post ID:14882

[Death]

yea, but an 18 mod weapon wont be effective at all =p.

Hmm I dunno, 30% for each leech and a 50% hit spell on top of some wickod regeneration.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2321, old post ID:14883

[d.]

thats 4 mods, not 18, and compare that to Muramasa hellblade Gaoa:

100 di
33 life leech
33 mana leech
33 stam leech
33 swing speed inc
100% fire damage

and then think about how much easier it is to get hellblade than all the pieces for a masterpiece =p.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2321, old post ID:14884

[Plastic Man]

I agree with d., just being able to get the best points from a supreme is to be blunt to much risk and not enough reward, and for only a few 100% mods?? Nope. It's really a no brainer to ask someone, would you like to spend a week getting Deathspell or an arty you can trade for it or would you spend a month or two or three collecting Mastpeice weps and reasources to make soemthing that really isn't in any way superior?

It just makes no sense, the point I can see in a making a masterpeice weapon is to truly have the most powerful weapon of the type you use. Not to say that I think masterpeices should be over powered, but they do need to be A) Easier to obtain or Of comiserate value/usefulness to the amount of sheer time and difficulty involved in making one. Meaning that if they stay as difficult to build as they are currently, they should be the best type of item on the shard, the very best, since NOTHING is as hard or time consuming to get than a masterpeice and all the reasources.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2321, old post ID:14887

[Death]

Alright. Due to popular demand, I'll be raising the scale of the masterpiece system and looking back at a few of the resources and raising their caps and modifying their points.

Now that all the resources are in the game that makes a good 64 of them (Not counting a couple that are still in development stage) so it WILL take a long time to get enough of them. So to make up for the longevity and task of building the weapon, I'll be raising the scale and caps accordingly.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2321, old post ID:14888

[dprantl]

I think that's a good idea. It will basically be like a vet reward, but only for vets that actually play regularly to earn it.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2321, old post ID:14893

[onykage]

yea, but an 18 mod weapon wont be effective at all =p.

Hmm I dunno, 30% for each leech and a 50% hit spell on top of some wickod regeneration.

I dunno, i kinda see this in deaths light now, hes right thats a really wiked item. although i am talking with out having seen any of the really pimp items in the game yet.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2321, old post ID:14905

[Death]

Ya, I totally agree what you guys are trying to say about the points and getting a weapon with high mods but I'm also thinking the effects it will have if somebody decides to only go half way with some stats. Keeping in mind it is possible to get MR 5, HR 5, SR 5 all on the same weapon if the points go high enough.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2321, old post ID:14908

[d.]

so on a weapon someone is going to put regens on it instead of leeches?..........uh, right. =p And even if they did, mr is nerfed so having high amounts isnt all that great, and hpr isnt viable in pvp, and isnt viable in pvm vs the uber bosses (because you cant regen fast enough vs the mass dmg). and any stam regen over 10-15 is way overkill.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2321, old post ID:14910

[Death]

so on a weapon someone is going to put regens on it instead of leeches?..........uh, right. =p And even if they did, mr is nerfed so having high amounts isnt all that great, and hpr isnt viable in pvp, and isnt viable in pvm vs the uber bosses (because you cant regen fast enough vs the mass dmg). and any stam regen over 10-15 is way overkill.

Not everyone fights with a weapon (Tamer/crafter) so it's possible to make a weapon to suit the needs (Tamer: 200 luck HPR sheperd's crook seems appropriate). Loading it up with regens is still very valuable, it's only useless as your total MR/SR/HPR goes up.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2321, old post ID:14911

[d.]

I still fail to see how weapons such as those are overpowered.

Compare them to book of arkaza, 4 mr, 15 lmc, 15 sdi, 22 mana inc, 125 luck. Also look at items for tamers like whell of fortune, 250 luck, 5 int, 15 dci, extremely good for a lesser aoa.

I agree you need to be careful when pumping them up, as making them too godly could be a costly mistake. But I think we all agree that they need to be majorly improved, considering the sheer amount of time it takes to make one with all the resources, they should be near the top, if not the very best items attainable on here.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2321, old post ID:14913

[Death]

I still fail to see how weapons such as those are overpowered.

Compare them to book of arkaza, 4 mr, 15 lmc, 15 sdi, 22 mana inc, 125 luck. Also look at items for tamers like whell of fortune, 250 luck, 5 int, 15 dci, extremely good for a lesser aoa.

I agree you need to be careful when pumping them up, as making them too godly could be a costly mistake. But I think we all agree that they need to be majorly improved, considering the sheer amount of time it takes to make one with all the resources, they should be near the top, if not the very best items attainable on here.

They will be bumped as mentioned before. As for the 5mr/hpr/sr weapons, I wouldn't call them overpowered, they're more on the "unique" side of things which really brings out the true flexibility of the system.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2321, old post ID:14914

[Dumples]

I still fail to see how weapons such as those are overpowered.

Compare them to book of arkaza, 4 mr, 15 lmc, 15 sdi, 22 mana inc, 125 luck. Also look at items for tamers like whell of fortune, 250 luck, 5 int, 15 dci, extremely good for a lesser aoa.

I agree you need to be careful when pumping them up, as making them too godly could be a costly mistake. But I think we all agree that they need to be majorly improved, considering the sheer amount of time it takes to make one with all the resources, they should be near the top, if not the very best items attainable on here.

They will be bumped as mentioned before. As for the 5mr/hpr/sr weapons, I wouldn't call them overpowered, they're more on the "unique" side of things which really brings out the true flexibility of the system.

I think it is agreed already as far as what needs to be done and what the issues to watch out for are. Let's just leave this discussion as is for now, and let him tweak it a bit. Death, tell us when you tweak it and what you've done to it, and we'll try it out. Then, we can continue again.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2321, old post ID:14915

[Death]

The weapon point system won't get tweaked until I finish the final stages of the point system and resources (Some caps are getting upped and some points getting reduced/increased).

I will likely get to that the week of february 25 - 29 as I'll have the most time then, but I'm not promising anything.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2321, old post ID:14919

[Red Squirrel]

keep in mind my server's disk failure will highly delay any updates. Everything goes on TC1 (which was on that disk) before it goes on live, and I need to rebuild it once I get the new drive. then I need to figure out how far behind the scripts are and recode all progress done after the last live update.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2321, old post ID:14922

[Death]

keep in mind my server's disk failure will highly delay any updates. Everything goes on TC1 (which was on that disk) before it goes on live, and I need to rebuild it once I get the new drive. then I need to figure out how far behind the scripts are and recode all progress done after the last live update.

That too will delay the changes.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2321, old post ID:14928

[Xylene]

Death, anyway you can post the resources in order from most common to rarest? I have hundreds of resources and not sure what ones are better than others, hehe

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2321, old post ID:14930