Court sentences bishop for ringing church bells

Bookworm · Post by **Bookworm** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 12:44 am

Ding, dong, the bells are dead – at least on weekdays.

By court order, the electronic chimes that were rung each day by Cathedral of Christ the King Church in Phoenix, Ariz., are now confined to Sundays and special occasions, while the cathedral's leader, Bishop Rick Painter, faces potential jail time for playing the daily melodies.

Responding to complaints that the electronic bells at the northern Phoenix church were rung too loud and too often, a municipal court gave Painter three years probation and a suspended 10-day jail sentence on charges of violating city noise ordinances.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=100277

I wonder if the reaction would be different if these were real bells rather than electronic ones. If you buy a house near a church that has real bells, you will probably be aware the bells are going to be ringing, and you can make your house purchase with that fact in mind. The article that I posted doesn't say when the bells started ringing, but I think one of the other articles I looked at said that they started ringing within the last few years. Still, the electronic bells are able to be set at a lower volume setting than what real bells would br, so the electronic ones should be less of a problem.

In my opinion, the best recourse for the church would be to go to their lawmakers and try to get an exemption for worship bells. After all, ice cream trucks had to get their exemption somehow.

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Chris Vogel · Post by **Chris Vogel** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 1:25 am

Bookworm wrote: After all, ice cream trucks had to get their exemption somehow.

Ice-cream trucks don’t drive by hourly from 8:00 to 20:00. (I don’t mean to defend them; they should have their exemption revoked too.)

His punishment was rather harsh.

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manadren · Post by **manadren** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 4:11 pm

Perhaps the sentence is a bit harsh, but I don't know the whole situation. To be honest though, I don't think church bells should be granted any special treatment. I mean if the church and the bells were of historical significance, and the vast majority of the residents within earshot were fine with it, that'd be one thing, but that doesn't seem like the case here. I mean you are free to practice whatever faith (or lack thereof) however you choose, but that doesn't give you the right to ignore everyone else. Faith is not a free pass.

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scherzo · Post by **scherzo** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:37 am

I don't see any argument that could sustain the bells being rung during the week. If the bells continued to ring after being told, then the bells were rung on purpose and a harsh sentence is justified.

Subjectivity plays a role here, and objectively I see no difference between the bells and some kid with a loud car stereo.

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FloodG8-9595 · Post by **FloodG8-9595** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:03 am

I have a loud car stereo.... want to put me in prision?

now, that having been asked.... Yeah if the guy was asked to stop rining bells cause the whole darn town was being woken up in the dead of night by some yahoo with a bell fetish sure, punish him.. Or if after being asked to stop rung them non-stop all day... punish him

If on the other hand he was rining them once a day for a few mins at a reasonable hour just let the man ring his bells!! are we that unable to deal with others? is our answer always "throw him in jail"?

:note: I don't know the whole story so I just kinda threw out all the possibilities I could thing of. Could i have read the whole story? yep... did I?.. nope... I'm busy.

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Bookworm · Post by **Bookworm** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:57 pm

FloodG8-9595 wrote: I have a loud car stereo.... want to put me in prision?

now, that having been asked.... Yeah if the guy was asked to stop rining bells cause the whole darn town was being woken up in the dead of night by some yahoo with a bell fetish sure, punish him.. Or if after being asked to stop rung them non-stop all day... punish him

If on the other hand he was rining them once a day for a few mins at a reasonable hour just let the man ring his bells!! are we that unable to deal with others? is our answer always "throw him in jail"?

:note: I don't know the whole story so I just kinda threw out all the possibilities I could thing of. Could i have read the whole story? yep... did I?.. nope... I'm busy.

Thay had been played hourly from 8 am to 8 pm, but they weren't played very loudly. Not any louder than converation level.
The ADF statement claims the bells registered only 67 decibels at the nearest property line, about as loud as a conversation, which ranges from 60-70 decibels. An investigation by KNXV-TV found the bells, even in the church's parking lot, were quieter than street traffic and failed to even register on a sound level meter in some parts of the neighborhood.

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FloodG8-9595 · Post by **FloodG8-9595** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:48 am

yeah... seriously.. leave the guy alone. Thats my final thought.

besides.. Bells are nice. THAT's my final thought.

I like cats... DOH!

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scherzo · Post by **scherzo** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:25 am

"The church bells chime a short, ancient melody of praise to God," commented Stanley. "It's too bad that the value of the bells is lost on many in our society. In a busy neighborhood full of sirens, heavy traffic and loud motorcycles, these chimes are a sound of peace that do not exceed the noise level of an average conversation. Certainly, that should be at least as acceptable as the sound of an ice cream truck."

Bishop Painter defended the bells as a constitutionally protected freedom of religion issue.

"We're expressing our religion," he told KNXV. "We glorify God by the bells."

I can almost guarantee Bishop Rick Painter did not know the decibel level of an ice cream truck or a conversation before making his decision to use the bells. His decision was more likely attributed to the statement, "We are expressing our religion"

Therefore we can establish the only facts are Some liked the bells, and others did not.

neighbors testified the music disturbed them and made them feel like captives in their own homes

As you can see the decision reflected these facts, those who like the bells get them on Sundays and special occasions, those who don't like them get the rest of the time.

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scherzo · Post by **scherzo** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:28 am

FloodG8-9595 wrote: I have a loud car stereo.... want to put me in prision?

I have a loud stereo as well, 600w amp powers 2 125w 6x9's and a big 10 inch sub

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FloodG8-9595 · Post by **FloodG8-9595** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:00 am

scherzo wrote: [quote=-> "The church bells chime a short, ancient melody of praise to God," commented Stanley. "It's too bad that the value of the bells is lost on many in our society. In a busy neighborhood full of sirens, heavy traffic and loud motorcycles, these chimes are a sound of peace that do not exceed the noise level of an average conversation. Certainly, that should be at least as acceptable as the sound of an ice cream truck."

Bishop Painter defended the bells as a constitutionally protected freedom of religion issue.

"We're expressing our religion," he told KNXV. "We glorify God by the bells."

I can almost guarantee Bishop Rick Painter did not know the decibel level of an ice cream truck or a conversation before making his decision to use the bells. His decision was more likely attributed to the statement, "We are expressing our religion"

Therefore we can establish the only facts are Some liked the bells, and others did not.

neighbors testified the music disturbed them and made them feel like captives in their own homes

As you can see the decision reflected these facts, those who like the bells get them on Sundays and special occasions, those who don't like them get the rest of the time.

[/quote]

<!--QuoteBegin-scherzo]

FloodG8-9595 wrote: I have a loud car stereo.... want to put me in prision?

I have a loud stereo as well, 600w amp powers 2 125w 6x9's and a big 10 inch sub

[/quote]

I think the point here is that the guy picked the wrong argument to defend his right to ring the bells.... "religion" was a poor choice to get anyone to "see his point"

My response would have been... "seriously?... they aren't even that loud... it's pretty AND it only lasts a few seconds. Oh wait I forgot, people have watches now and don't need chimes and bells to tell them what time it is.. but, it's still nice isn't it?... (that last part was me as him being sarcastic)

Nice system Scherzo! As long as we only use our speaker power for good we shall all be happy and rewarded in the afterlife

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