Can we talk?

Chyse · Post by **Chyse** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:14 pm

Okay, so i consider you guys my friends. Even though we don't see eachother face to face, I feel like you guys know me better than aquaintances or non-friends...

I need to vent some pain and confusion i've been feeling...and all i'm asking for is some feedback to why i'm feeling the way I am.
I'm not suicidal, I love life, i'm just very confused with myself...

I took Aderall for ADD sophomore year through junior year. I stopped taking it this year until yesterday. Yesterday, everything was fine.

However, today I told my friend I didn't agree with Vocabulary tests in a 12th grade english class. She said I was stupid and i could never read this book my girlfriend told me to read called "The time traveler's wife" because the main character is smart and i wouldn't understand him.
That's not why i'm concerned.
After that I started talking to my Music theory teacher who is also my assistant band director. I've known him for over 4 years and I feel like i can talk to him and get honest opinions and have good discussions with him.
So we talked about what she said to me and he agreed that i'm not stupid because of my opinions on vocabulary. But he said that he disagrees with me and thinks vocabulary is very important. He proceeded to shoot down all of my ideas about the english class i hate with logic and facts. He obviously won the arguement...but i couldn't admit he was right.
After that i felt so bad I didn't talk the rest of the class. I barely talked during lunch. And my friends all begged me to tell them what was wrong. But I refused to say a word. I just wanted more than anything to be left alone. I felt so insecure, just because I lost an arguement...

This brings me to my confusion.

Why am I so hurt when somebody shows me that i'm wrong in how I think about what I do with my life?

Maybe I still can't be who I am? Maybe I have to put on this facade of a kid who doesn't care about school because I don't want to feel vulnerable. Maybe I felt so bad because he was destroying my armor, my protective shell that keeps me from having to be who I am.
I know deep down that i'm a smart kid. If I apply myself I can do so much. If I work hard I can get amazing grades and blow my parents away. I can make something of myself. I just don't try. I think maybe i'm just scared to be me because then I'll be that kid who got picked on for being smart. Maybe i'm afraid that junior high will happen all over again. Maybe i'm just so scared that i'll do anything to protect myself. Even if it means getting a D in a class i could easily get an A or a B+ in. Even getting put on the wait-list for a college I should easily be able to get into. Even if it means my future, i'll try to protect myself. Maybe that's why i tell my parents i don't care about school. That's why i say high school is a joke. That's why i say a class is worthless.

*sigh*

If you read all that, i apologize for writing this, but i need to get this out of me or it'll just cluster up and keep me from seeing my problems clearly.

Feedback would be much appreciated. Am I just crazy? Is it just my medication making me depressed? Or is it my medication making me see things more clearly?
Idk...

Trying to figure out who I am...It's much harder than I imagined it would be.

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manadren · Post by **manadren** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:11 pm

I would say it's the meds. Seeing as you just started taking them again, it'll probably be a little while before things even out.

Which is not to say the whole introspection is pure Aderall. You're seeing the truth of yourself, just through a darkened filter. Meaning it's not as bad as you think it is, so don't give it too much weight until you are sure you are looking at it with a clear head.

The real trick is in what you do with all this. Admitting your faults is the first step to doing something about them, true, but right now I think you just need a good outlet. In my darker times I've written crappy poetry, drew, or wrote in a blog which I kinda counted on no one reading. You can always remove the evidence later, or you can start a deviantart profile, either way.

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Stasi · Post by **Stasi** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:54 pm

Possibly the meds. You should tell your parents or doc about how they make you feel. The brain chemistry of a teenager is a complex thing and some drugs, even anti-depressants, are known to cause depression as a side effect.

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Chyse · Post by **Chyse** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:43 pm

Well i've told my mother i used to feel unreasonably depressed during 6th period chemistry sophomore year. I'd get very angry at myself for not scoring the highest grade in the class...

But I feel like the meds let me see clearer? Or maybe i'm just thinking about this the wrong way. But this would explain a LOT. I don't do my homework very often at all. I'm just now starting to do it. I don't care about school as much as I should...My idea about it explains so much and, if i'm right, could fix a LOT of problems...

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Stasi · Post by **Stasi** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:48 pm

Out of curiousity, do you experience states of high-energy with a lack of concern for the consequences of your actions (i.e. act unusually annoying or callous, but not out of depressive self-destruction)?

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Chyse · Post by **Chyse** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 6:16 am

I don't think so...

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manadren · Post by **manadren** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:05 pm

I think I see where Stasi is going with this.

Sometimes people are misdiagnosed as ADD when they are actually bipolar. And sometimes people have both. Bipolar is also called manic depression, so you can kinda guess what happens to such people, they have periods where they are full of energy (which could be confused as ADD) and others where they are extremely depressed.

I can't really say from what you've told us, but you may want to talk about it with your doctor. But at this point I'd say it's probably just the meds screwing you up.

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Chyse · Post by **Chyse** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:48 pm

Well...idk...i've taken plenty of tests and been to a therapist, i think they'd have noticed manic depression or bipolar disorder by now...

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Reaper · Post by **Reaper** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:19 pm

Chyse wrote: Well...idk...i've taken plenty of tests and been to a therapist, i think they'd have noticed manic depression or bipolar disorder by now...

Yeah probably. So I'd rule out those two things.

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Chyse · Post by **Chyse** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:57 pm

Idk...I get hyper during lunch...but i'm with my girlfriend for the first time all day since first period and i get excited when i get to see her...

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fragged one · Post by **fragged one** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:02 pm

to preface what i'm saying, let me say this: personally, i don't beleive in add or adhd. while the behaviors some exhibit that we associate with add or adhd may not be "normal", they are still natural human behaviors. every individiual is different, some are more hyper and are "on the fly", and other are more laid back and relaxed. what we call "normal" is in the middle. however, this is an entire different subject, really.

this has absolutely nothing to do with meds or add.

what you are going through is entirely normal. i've grown up mentally and physically, but it wasn't long ago that i was your age going through the same things.

kids enter teenhood thinking that because they can take basic care of themselves they have a much deeper knowledge of the world than they really have. i liken it to job training. one gets a new job, goes through the training, and they come out confident in what they've learned in that short period of time. they've gone through the books, they've witnessed some examples of what they'll be doing, maybe even had a few hands-on sessions.

however, when they get to the doing the real job, thrown to the wolves, so to speak, they begin to realize they know only a fraction of everything they need to know, and it's sink or swim.

often-times they start to challenge the training and notions of how it should be done. they begin to form how they think it can be done better, sometimes improving the process and sometimes not. but often at the beginning they don't give full appreciation for the years and years that people of ther years have innovated in this area, as they ahve more experience this changes. then then can begin to innovate on the different areas because they can then understand why it's truly done this way. this is maturation.

on a side note:

challenging societies notions of what should or shouldn't be done, what we should and shouldn't spend time in our education on, how our government is run, and on, and on in, a creating and constructive fashion innovation, too. just as science must be challenged to progress, so does society (which is formed by our education).

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Chyse · Post by **Chyse** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:18 am

Fragged, I understand what you're talking about.

Whether I have ADD or ADHD or not is irrelevant. What I KNOW I have is a lack the ability to focus for more than a minute and keep my thoughts organized.
Medication fixes that problem so I can survive in the horrible place that is high school.

What kind of angers me is that the four most important years of our lives, in my opinion, are four years where we mature the most and go through enormous emotional, mental, and physical changes.

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Stasi · Post by **Stasi** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 12:44 am

Yeah, the importance of the high school years sucks because it's when people are still afflicted with the jumble of adolescent hormones and the growing complexity of personal relationships. If I knew then what I know now....

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scherzo · Post by **scherzo** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:17 am

you ain't crazy and there is nothing wrong with you, there is a saying,

"There is no such thing as a bad student, only a bad teacher"

Your lack of aptitude for any class is the fault of the teacher, it is the teachers job to teach, make it interesting, find ways to motivate, encourage, etc. It is what they are 'paid' to do.

also it is institutionalized, Teachers have the monopoly on learning, 'union' gives them protection from 'bad teaching'. standards, 'bell curve' universal reports all work against the student. Don't forget, 'teachers' are and were students as well, so of course they are going to support the institution. Your 'teachers' defense of a subject using 'logic' was highly disadvantage to you, and not a fair fight. You 'lost' the argument before it started.

However, 'True learning' begins with the admission of being 'wrong'. anything else is 'memory work' And 'memory work' doesn't teach students how to 'think' - you maybe at more of an advantage now than your fellow students, and even your teacher. Admission of being 'wrong' IS NEVER a defeat, it is a victory, it allows you to associate 'facts' to an event, rather than being told. It is an experience.

how many years did we think the world was flat? how many people were told, and when asked would answer what they were told, and be accepted as 'right'? We only know the earth is round because someone challenged it, and when they challenged it they were 'wrong'. You are probably actually 'right' but being right is useless unless you have others accept it, these others are at a disadvantage to you because they are simply repeating what they were taught.

I encourage your thought.

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Chyse · Post by **Chyse** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 10:27 am

Thanks. That helps a lot.

I'm currently in a battle with my english teacher over an extremely unfair "F" on my term paper... I talked to a lady who's an english major and a senior in college atm. Almost everything she wrote down was complete BS.

She circled part of my rubric that said "Paper shows evidence of research and hard work." She circled it and wrote "NOT AT ALL." I worked my ass off on that paper.
She also said that a book written about my subject was not a good source. Probably just because she's never heard of it. (My subject was Gary Gygax and how his creation of D&D changed the world. The source she said was bad was the Monster Manual, a core book for the playing of Dungeons and Dragons that explains how part of the game is played.)

Apperantly my paper wasn't as long as it should have been. So she said I get half the grade because I did half the work. I'm submitting my paper to the head of the English department to grade...

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manadren · Post by **manadren** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:59 pm

I don't really agree with scherzo on his comments about education, yes there are problems with the education system in this country, but it's not just because it's "institutionalized". And it's not entirely the teachers fault you have trouble in class. It's a bit of a balancing act, and I think the focus of our education system is off because of too much interference by politicians that don't understand education. But teachers are limited by the school system tells them to teach, that and they tend to be overburdened and underfunded. Yes there are problems with the system, but if there were no system, there would be no standards, no way to make sure students are getting some basic level of education. No way to ensure teachers are qualified to teach and students are learning what they need to know.

On the other hand, yeah, Chyse, you teacher sounds like an [anus]. You should have the right to question your grade, without your teacher being a [spiteful woman] about it.

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Chyse · Post by **Chyse** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 9:31 pm

I talked to the head of the english department...not much help there. This sucks...

. No way to ensure teachers are qualified to teach

I know PLENTY of teachers who are teaching and are certainly not qualified.

And I agree with, manadren about how it's a two way street between the teacher and the student. But I pay attention in class and I work hard. Yet i get crap for grades. Because most of my teachers are dimwits and think grading as hard as they possibly can is the best way to "prepare us for college."
The problem with that is how are we going to get into a good college with straight F's?

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scherzo · Post by **scherzo** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:16 pm

currently in a battle with my english teacher over an extremely unfair "F" on my term paper.

as I said before, true learning begins with admission of being wrong. Either this 'f' is your 'wrong' or the 'teachers'

If you admit the 'f' is deserved then you can learn from the experience, if however you do not believe the 'f' is deserved then the teacher must learn, remember the statement,

"no such thing as a bad student, only a bad teacher' - this now applies to you. You are the teacher on the paper, you must convince your student (the teacher) you are correct. by giving you an 'f' it sounds like you failed.

however,

how his creation of D&D changed the world.

this actually maybe a good topic, however might require some more research

wikipedia is quoted on the subject,

D&D also had a large impact on modern video games

wikipedia is also credited for 151 entries on notes on the subject, also extensive resources on, references, further reading, and external links

The original creation has inspired the imagination of millions, with billions in revenue, its success far exceeds that of the original series of Star Trek (from the 60's) a series which introduced the idea of the cell phone (a major impact on the world today, through telecommunications, investments, etc. etc.)

I find it difficult to believe D and D cannot best Star Trek on its impact on the world.

you have me interested on the subject, make a connection to how we live today, to the original idea, what was introduced in D&D that we had never seen before?

wikipedia makes an interesting note,

The moral panic over the game also led to problems for fans of D&D who faced further social ostracism, unfair treatment and false association with the occult and Satanism, regardless of an individual fan’s actual religious affiliation and beliefs

and

moral panic can be defined as "the intensity of feeling expressed by a large number of people about a specific group of people who appear to threaten the social order at a given time

A threat to social order is a huge impact on the way we live, If you can connect D&D to social change, you will have your theme, for example,

All business's are closed for Sunday, but changes in social belief allowed the stores to open on Sunday, and even some business open for Christmas. Although I do not think that stores being open on Sunday can be directly tied to D&D, there maybe a connection on social belief to allow stores to be open and other changes. The lord's prayer no longer in schools might be a direct result of the challanges D&D brought to social belief.

with all that said, I am only some person on the internet, your relationships with your teacher, and friends are a higher priority. You may respect my opinion, but you must respect their opinions more, as they are 'flesh and blood' real people, in a real world.

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Chyse · Post by **Chyse** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 6:21 pm

I should have put in more sources and straight up facts.

But I think my teacher is wrong in the sense that she's a bitch.

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Stasi · Post by **Stasi** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:44 pm

How about some cheese with that whine?

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Stasi · Post by **Stasi** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 3:22 pm

scherzo wrote: you ain't crazy and there is nothing wrong with you, there is a saying,

"There is no such thing as a bad student, only a bad teacher"

Your lack of aptitude for any class is the fault of the teacher, it is the teachers job to teach, make it interesting, find ways to motivate, encourage, etc. It is what they are 'paid' to do.

What a sad little mentality you have on the subject. That is the thinking of a sheep whose only self-actuation is in seeking redress from everyone they blame for their own failures and inadequacies. For shame....

also it is institutionalized, Teachers have the monopoly on learning, 'union' gives them protection from 'bad teaching'. standards, 'bell curve' universal reports all work against the student.

I'm not a big union fan, but teachers get a lot of crap from all directions, including parents, students, government, and administrators. This is one case where I think the teachers' union is a necessary advocate for a goup of people so often used as scapegoats by small-thinking people.

Don't forget, 'teachers' are and were students as well, so of course they are going to support the institution. Your 'teachers' defense of a subject using 'logic' was highly disadvantage to you, and not a fair fight. You 'lost' the argument before it started.

So anyone who is or was ever a student is going to "support the institution"? ...Which of course to you seems to mean supporting only the negatives.

However, 'True learning' begins with the admission of being 'wrong'. anything else is 'memory work' And 'memory work' doesn't teach students how to 'think' - you maybe at more of an advantage now than your fellow students, and even your teacher. Admission of being 'wrong' IS NEVER a defeat, it is a victory, it allows you to associate 'facts' to an event, rather than being told. It is an experience.

Admission of being "wrong" is a defeat when you're not wrong. And only an unthinking, arrogant ass requires that others prove them wrong before they learn anything. Critical thought is more about the understanding that you don't possess the breadth of knowledge, experience, or perception that others may. It is also about being able to sniff it out when someone comes around and baffles you with a mountain of convincing BS that, on the face of it all, seems correct but ultimately isn't.

how many years did we think the world was flat?

lol

how many people were told, and when asked would answer what they were told, and be accepted as 'right'? We only know the earth is round because someone challenged it, and when they challenged it they were 'wrong'. You are probably actually 'right' but being right is useless unless you have others accept it, these others are at a disadvantage to you because they are simply repeating what they were taught.

I'm sure you simply repeat a lot of what you were taught, unless you're not human.

I encourage your thought.

Not sure you do.

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scherzo · Post by **scherzo** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:16 pm

Stasi wrote:

How about some cheese with that whine?

These are some encouraging words for 'Chyse'. Perhaps you could offer some advise on how to 'cope' with his issue. Or better, 'conform'. If coping or conforming were your strong points I'm sure you would still be a practicing Mennonite, or Amish, or Jehovah's witness (whatever it was or is)

What a sad little mentality you have on the subject. That is the thinking of a sheep whose only self-actuation is in seeking redress from everyone they blame for their own failures and inadequacies. For shame...

I made no attempt at blame, I believe you used your crystal ball to see something that wasn't there. Also I am not credited with the quote. Furthermore I shifted the responsibility of teaching to 'chyse' on his paper graded with an 'F'. The quote was universally applied to both teacher and student. I took the risk by taking a position on the subject (and so did chyse) - You on the otherhand have no position on the subject other than to blame adolescent hormones and the growing complexity of personal relationships.

Admission of being "wrong" is a defeat when you're not wrong

you haven't said he was wrong or right. You may have every bit of intelligence but lack the ability to make up your mind, and consequently to 'act'. 'Chyse' is in this position to act, and must act. The easiest road for chyse to follow is to conform to the teachers wishes, however is it 'right' and more importantly is it right for 'chyse'?

I'm not a big union fan, but teachers get a lot of crap from all directions, including parents, students, government, and administrators. This is one case where I think the teachers' union is a necessary advocate for a goup of people so often used as scapegoats by small-thinking people.

So anyone who is or was ever a student is going to "support the institution"? ...Which of course to you seems to mean supporting only the negatives

anyone is a fool to believe that schools can cater to everyone. If this was the case, everyone would receive an 'A' and we wouldn't have private schools, faith based schools, academic, school of arts, etc. The fact that 'chyse' approached a 'band' teacher tells me he has an aptitude for the arts. Chyse is also obviously an avid D&D player again utilizing his imagination. Without the Arts, Academics are useless for there would be nothing to read or write about.

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Stasi · Post by **Stasi** » Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:43 pm

I'll keep it short and to the point since I'm not interested in getting into a long, drawn-out argument over semantics which is what these sorts of disagreements typically degenerate into.

1 - Frankly, Chyse is sounding a lot like the old GG. That dead horse was beaten a long time ago. I'm not fond of re-runs.

2 - How is saying, "your lack of aptitude for any class is the fault of the teacher" not blame? Hardly takes a crystal ball to see what's in front of my face.

3 - I don't know that Chyse is wrong or right. I'm not going to "side" with someone who I don't really even know. In any case, who's right or wrong in his experience with the teacher is beside the point of my response to your post. I was responding to your general philosophy/thoughts on teaching. That said, I think it's garbage that his teacher *appears* to have been so quick to reject his paper since I would consider it to be a valid subject.

4 - Schools don't cater to every individual's specific learning style or needs. I never said they did. However, I don't use someone's bad experience with a teacher as a means to dive into a rant against the system. Having an older sister who taught for several years, I got an earful about the politics of the job, and the crap she and others have to put up with in terms of idiot parents. Even dedicated teachers who put their full energy into their job get shat on by the system, parents, and their own administrators.

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Chyse · Post by **Chyse** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:46 pm

Stasi wrote: 1 - Frankly, Chyse is sounding a lot like the old GG. That dead horse was beaten a long time ago. I'm not fond of re-runs.

WTF

All I asked for was a little bit of advice from a third party. And you immediately look at me as this snot-nosed little brat i used to be. As opposed to offering help, all you do is insult people. I'm not depressed, i'm not suicidal. I'm just pissed because i feel that a grade which determines whether I pass a state required class or not is unfair. Forgive me for asking for others for advice when I don't know what to do.

Why are you such an ass?

And who do you think you are calling Scherzo an "arrogant ass?" He's actually offering help. You're being the prick here. Get off your high horse and come discuss with the rest of us.
If you can't post without insulting somebody, then don't post. I thought you'd have learned the "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" lesson sometime in grade school.

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Stasi · Post by **Stasi** » Mon Dec 15, 2008 3:12 pm

Chyse wrote:
Stasi wrote: 1 - Frankly, Chyse is sounding a lot like the old GG. That dead horse was beaten a long time ago. I'm not fond of re-runs.

WTF

All I asked for was a little bit of advice from a third party. And you immediately look at me as this snot-nosed little brat i used to be. As opposed to offering help, all you do is insult people. I'm not depressed, i'm not suicidal. I'm just pissed because i feel that a grade which determines whether I pass a state required class or not is unfair. Forgive me for asking for others for advice when I don't know what to do.

Fair enough. Reading back through this thread, you're actually not acting like you used on. The "my teacher is wrong in the sense that she's a bitch" comment brought all that past stuff to mind.

Why are you such an ass?

You don't know me.

And who do you think you are calling Scherzo an "arrogant ass?" He's actually offering help. You're being the prick here. Get off your high horse and come discuss with the rest of us.

I stand by my comment:

And only an unthinking, arrogant ass requires that others prove them wrong before they learn anything.

If you go around with such pretense and bold foolishness as to be unable to learn by thinking about things yourself or observing the failures of others, and therefore require others to prove your assumptions wrong (essentially "humble" you) before you "truly" learn anything, then you're an arrogant ass.

If you can't post without insulting somebody, then don't post. I thought you'd have learned the "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" lesson sometime in grade school.

I insulted you and I apologize. Everything else I've said in this thread, I stand by.

edit: fixed the damn quote tags.

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