Pursuasive Essay

[Chyse]

Stasi makes me angry sometimes.
But i still love her.

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3290, old post ID:59944

[Red Squirrel]

Shenbaw 2.0 - the quote critic bot returns!

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3290, old post ID:59950

[Reaper]

Hey gg, stop acting like a 5 year old:
"oh! i have really crappy reasons for my opinions so i think i'll just insult you instead of stating some real information!"

And don't even try to tell ANYONE you AREN'T prejudiced to your opinion.

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3290, old post ID:59951

[manadren]

And Manadren...

The government isn't in the business of writing dictionaries. They have no right to govern who and how a word can be used.

... absolutely incorrect. Read a lawbook. Things are defined ad nauseum. In order to have a meaningful legal system, the government must define words. Obviously, the definition may differ from person to person, but to say that the government has either no right or business in defining words, ideas, etc. is incorrect.

I really should've seen that coming.. all this talk about definitions is getting me confused

but yeah, the government has and does define the effective legal definition of many words.

The problem is the the word "marriage" cannot be divorced (excuse the pun) from it's cultural and religious context. So when you say marriage is between a man and a woman in a legal sense you are also, in effect, writing into law the religious and cultural context as well. And this cultural and religious meaning can vary greatly from region to region, church to church. Now you can say, "big deal, they can always pick a new word", but the society has already chosen 'marriage' as a more significant and meaningful term than 'civil union'. The word 'marriage' is already more significant to many same-sex couples. It's only symbolic, true, but when you say 1 man and 1 woman, in a way you are saying to them, that their relationships are less meaningful, even insignificant. Not to mention the term 'civil union' in the legal sense does not exist throughout this country, and even then it does not always have the same legal rights.

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3290, old post ID:59952

[Stasi]

And Manadren...

The government isn't in the business of writing dictionaries. They have no right to govern who and how a word can be used.

... absolutely incorrect. Read a lawbook. Things are defined ad nauseum. In order to have a meaningful legal system, the government must define words. Obviously, the definition may differ from person to person, but to say that the government has either no right or business in defining words, ideas, etc. is incorrect.

I really should've seen that coming.. all this talk about definitions is getting me confused

but yeah, the government has and does define the effective legal definition of many words.

The problem is the the word "marriage" cannot be divorced (excuse the pun) from it's cultural and religious context. So when you say marriage is between a man and a woman in a legal sense you are also, in effect, writing into law the religious and cultural context as well. And this cultural and religious meaning can vary greatly from region to region, church to church. Now you can say, "big deal, they can always pick a new word", but the society has already chosen 'marriage' as a more significant and meaningful term than 'civil union'. The word 'marriage' is already more significant to many same-sex couples. It's only symbolic, true, but when you say 1 man and 1 woman, in a way you are saying to them, that their relationships are less meaningful, even insignificant. Not to mention the term 'civil union' in the legal sense does not exist throughout this country, and even then it does not always have the same legal rights.

Fair enough. In past discussions on this issue in the debate forum here, I've been a strong advocate of a legal definition being established. I've even gone so far as to say that in terms of policy, if the legislature, etc. wants to allow same-sex "marriage" then they need to define marriage to include it. This would prevent the issue from respawning for the likes of zoophiles wanting a legal status for their union with another animal, and so on. That said, I just think that a common definition or understanding of what something means sets something of a precedent, like a judicial precedent, that can be valid enough to go by in the future. And like I also said in one of my elephantine posts, I think that if people weren't so religious, there'd probably be significantly less opposition to same-sex marriage. I'm arguing my opinion from a secular standpoint - granted, I have some bias to favor it. And I fully expect that at some point in the future, "marriage" will be redefined, at least legally, to include same-sex unions.

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3290, old post ID:59957

[Stasi]

GG:

I'm going to make some final points. I will start by apologizing for the tone of my last response. Once again I made the mistake of posting after a long night of work when I was tired and frustrated. And I understand that you're still "growing up", so I can't hold certain things against you quite so much....

I'm going to string up a bunch of quotes again, but this is in response to your latest post:

- Yes, my opinion is according to me.

- As you grow up and gain experience, you'll find that you have prejudices. That you "believe in equality" really doesn't matter. You are still human. After all, you can believe that lying is wrong and yet still lie from time to time. In my opinion, human nature does not lend itself well to perfection....

- With the blacks as equals thing, I was addressing your particular analogy, part seriously, part facetiously.

- I said you'd be "blacklisted" in my mind as such and such only if you'd said that I disagreed with your belief that gay couples should have a civil union with the same rights and privileges as hetero "marriage". I said it strongly because only if you hadn't been paying any attention to what I've said in here would you say that I disagreed with you on this point. It's not an outright personal attack, though you could think of it as one, I guess, if you did still think I didn't believe in a legally equitable union with a different name for same-sex couples.

- Being a homophobe has nothing to do with "racism".

- As for my saying I don't have any concrete sources for my position - someday you'll have the joy of writing academic papers where citations and sources are everything. I've written plenty of these and know what it entails to have a balanced set of sources. Since I am not being paid to post on this forum, since I am in the middle of my work week, and since I am under no obligation to post on certain topics here, I am not going to do the necessary research to come up with a thoroughly citable position. You may think this is a cheap escape, but you might understand once you get into college. This is why I have to laugh when you say you have facts coming out of your ears since I see nothing more than anecdotal "fact".

- Sorry, to almost kick someone out of the house because you misheard something they said and apparently didn't care about how they were trying to explain is a presumtuous, even prickish action. It is what it is.

I gotta go. Later.

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3290, old post ID:59958

[Clueless]

Se la vie


do you mean C'est la vie? lol sorry it was bugging me

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3290, old post ID:59965

[Chyse]

okay. i am cool with pretty much all of what you said there. i think we can agree to disagree. but i have just a few misunderstandings with what you said.

  And I understand that you're still "growing up", so I can't hold certain things against you quite so much....

first off, please don't treat me like a child. i'm a junior in high school. not some 12 year old kid. hell, i can drive, and in about 3 months i'll be 17. i'm not a kid. yeah i'm still "growing up," but i know a lot more than i think you give me credit for.

- As for my saying I don't have any concrete sources for my position - someday you'll have the joy of writing academic papers where citations and sources are everything.  I've written plenty of these and know what it entails to have a balanced set of sources.  Since I am not being paid to post on this forum, since I am in the middle of my work week, and since I am under no obligation to post on certain topics here, I am not going to do the necessary research to come up with a thoroughly citable position.  You may think this is a cheap escape, but you might understand once you get into college.  This is why I have to laugh when you say you have facts coming out of your ears since I see nothing more than anecdotal "fact".

i'm not asking you to write a research paper on your opinions. i'm asking you to base your opinions on hard evidence. you shouldnt have to find out all this stuff to back up what you believe in. What you believe in should back up what you've found out. understand? i'm not asking for you to research your own beliefs. i'm asking you to base what you believe in on research before you believe in it.

- Sorry, to almost kick someone out of the house because you misheard something they said and apparently didn't care about how they were trying to explain is a presumtuous, even prickish action.  It is what it is.

First of all, it wasn't like he was gonna kick me out. more like yell and scream and ground me for a month.
second of all, even if my dad threw a pan at my head, that still gives you no right to call him a prick. he's my father. not yours. you don't know him. i happen to love my father and he loves me back. he's not a prick. And i am extremely offended by what you said about him.


Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3290, old post ID:59966

[Chyse]

Hey gg, stop acting like a 5 year old:
"oh! i have really crappy reasons for my opinions so i think i'll just insult you instead of stating some real information!"

And don't even try to tell ANYONE you AREN'T prejudiced to your opinion.

Reaper, check this out:
prej·u·dice /ˈprɛdʒədɪs/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[prej-uh-dis] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -diced, -dic·ing.
–noun 1. an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason.

"Without knowledge, thought, or reason." How have i made an opinion without knowledge, thought, or reason? i have based my beliefs on research and personal experience. I'm not prejudice towards my opinion of gay marriage.

Edit: and yes, Clueless. You're totally right. and French ROCKS!!!! lol

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3290, old post ID:59969

[Stasi]

first off, please don't treat me like a child. i'm a junior in high school. not some 12 year old kid. hell, i can drive, and in about 3 months i'll be 17. i'm not a kid. yeah i'm still "growing up," but i know a lot more than i think you give me credit for.

Perhaps you do. After all, I don't know you in "real" life. However, your writing style and the way you construct your arguments, use words, etc. are "youthful". No offense is meant by this. But don't be arrogant and assume that just because you feel strongly about something that it's right. And don't assume that just because mom and dad say something, that they're correct. As you grow up, you'll come to know the reality that there is too much information out in the world to contain and understand in one lifetime. You will never be an expert in all things, and so long as you don't think critically about things, you'll never be an expert in anything. Please don't try to rebut this, it won't sway my opinion at this point. In ten years, read the stuff you write now. You'll see what I'm getting at.

i'm not asking you to write a research paper on your opinions. i'm asking you to base your opinions on hard evidence. you shouldnt have to find out all this stuff to back up what you believe in. What you believe in should back up what you've found out. understand? i'm not asking for you to research your own beliefs. i'm asking you to base what you believe in on research before you believe in it.

See, you keep asking me to base my opinions on hard evidence and yet you provide none for your own position. Quoting lines from a Christian marriage ritual doesn't serve to address my arguments very well for reasons I've already stated. And quoting the Declaration of Independence, and the vague notion that "all men are created equal" doesn't amount to much weight for your argument because the concept of "equality" is debatable. Why don't you look it up on the internet. The notions of "equality", "human rights", and so on are debated quite lively. You look at things in black and white, the way a child does.

First of all, it wasn't like he was gonna kick me out. more like yell and scream and ground me for a month.
second of all, even if my dad threw a pan at my head, that still gives you no right to call him a prick. he's my father. not yours. you don't know him. i happen to love my father and he loves me back. he's not a prick. And i am extremely offended by what you said about him.

Don't embellish the truth. If he wasn't going to kick you out, then you shouldn't have said he was going to. But even yelling, screaming, and grounding you for a month is a very aggressive and tyrannical way to deal with something as mundane as the use of a word. It demonstrates that he is out of touch with who you are as a person. For him to jump to the conclusion that you, the antagonist of "prejudice", would casually use the word "n*gger", which sounds nothing like "jager", he must have no idea what you're about. This is why I said what I said. I'm sorry that you were offended, but it in no way changes what I think about your dad based on what you've said so far. Anyone who would rather blow up and overreact to something than find out who, what, where, and why is in need of some "growing up" themselves. Toddlers throw tantrums.

"Without knowledge, thought, or reason." How have i made an opinion without knowledge, thought, or reason? i have based my beliefs on research and personal experience. I'm not prejudice towards my opinion of gay marriage.

Obviously we don't know you personally and therefore can't analyze any actions of yours in real time... but seriously, the pretense of perfection is unbecoming of the imperfect. Your assertion that you are in no way "prejudiced" is more evidence of your maturity level. Maybe someday you'll understand that.

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3290, old post ID:59972

[Stasi]

Se la vie


do you mean C'est la vie? lol sorry it was bugging me

Da, konechno. Ya ni govoryu pa-franzueskii yazik. Pazhalsta.

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3290, old post ID:59973

[Clueless]

what does that mean?

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3290, old post ID:59977

[Stasi]

Russian for, "Yes, of course. I don't speak French. Sorry."

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3290, old post ID:59982

[Clueless]

haha well you should speak french.

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3290, old post ID:59985

[Chyse]

Perhaps you do.  After all, I don't know you in "real" life.  However, your writing style and the way you construct your arguments, use words, etc. are "youthful".  No offense is meant by this.  But don't be arrogant and assume that just because you feel strongly about something that it's right.  And don't assume that just because mom and dad say something, that they're correct.  As you grow up, you'll come to know the reality that there is too much information out in the world to contain and understand in one lifetime.  You will never be an expert in all things, and so long as you don't think critically about things, you'll never be an expert in anything.  Please don't try to rebut this, it won't sway my opinion at this point.  In ten years, read the stuff you write now.  You'll see what I'm getting at.

I'm not trying to contain and understand all the information in the world. but before i make an opinion on something, i base it on facts. I know my parents are wrong sometimes. in fact they're wrong a lot. their beliefs are what was taught to me. but it's not like i blindly believe what they say. i believe what i do because of what i know and what i've learned, from experiences, from texts, and other sources.
and i will be an expert at something someday. and i do think critically. i've looked at both sides of the argument, weighed the facts, and decided what i believe in.

See, you keep asking me to base my opinions on hard evidence and yet you provide none for your own position.  Quoting lines from a Christian marriage ritual doesn't serve to address my arguments very well for reasons I've already stated.  And quoting the Declaration of Independence, and the vague notion that "all men are created equal" doesn't amount to much weight for your argument because the concept of "equality" is debatable.  Why don't you look it up on the internet.  The notions of "equality", "human rights", and so on are debated quite lively.  You look at things in black and white, the way a child does.

Yes, you're somewhat right there. with this issue, i look at it as black and white. right and wrong. that's beacuse i believe so strongly that it's so absolutely wrong, i cannot possibly understand any other opinion of it as okay. but that isn't how i think about a lot of issues. this just happens to be the one that sets me off.

but i don't think equality is debatable. and i don't think the declaration of independence's version of equality is vague by any means. it clearly states that all people should have the same rights...that pretty much sums it up. i mean, there isnt much more to ask there. nobody is treated special, nobody is treated worse. how is that vague?

Don't embellish the truth.  If he wasn't going to kick you out, then you shouldn't have said he was going to.  But even yelling, screaming, and grounding you for a month is a very aggressive and tyrannical way to deal with something as mundane as the use of a word.  It demonstrates that he is out of touch with who you are as a person.  For him to jump to the conclusion that you, the antagonist of "prejudice", would casually use the word "n*gger", which sounds nothing like "jager", he must have no idea what you're about.  This is why I said what I said. 

first of all, you know that "jager" is pronounced "yagger," which is dangerously close to the N word. not to mention, we were all talking and it was probably hard to hear me properly. so it doesnt surprise me that he thought i may have said that word. and even if i am the "antagonist of prejudice," i'm still his son, and people still say crap accidentally. and, it's not like i haven't sworn in front of him before and gotten yelled at for it.

I'm sorry that you were offended, but it in no way changes what I think about your dad based on what you've said so far.  Anyone who would rather blow up and overreact to something than find out who, what, where, and why is in need of some "growing up" themselves.  Toddlers throw tantrums.

what i'm saying is you have no right to judge my father based upon one story i've told you about him. take the story for what it is, a story. not a character analasys of my father. if you want to judge my father, you better get to know him in person. what if i told you that i thought you were a sadist bitch because of your thoughts on this issue? well, that'd be total bullshit. i dont know you in real life. the only part of you i've seen is this discussion. i dont know anything else about you, i dont know if you're a sadist bitch. maybe you have a family and you donate to charity and you're the most caring person in the world.
you can't make judgements about people based on something you've been told about them. and one thing you need to know about me: nobody, and i mean NOBODY insults my dad, mom, sister, girlfriend or best friend except one of them. i dont care if you're the flicking pope. it's my family, don't talk badly about my family. if you've got a problem with them, shut the fudge up and keep it to yourself. i swear to you, if ANYBODY at my school were to insult ANY of those people and i heard about it, i'd take them into the boy's locker room and beat them until they cried blood and at least 4 ribs were broken. i dont give a fudge. dont say that crap. now of course, i cant do this to you, and i couldn't do this to a girl. but, it doesn't change the fact that it offends me sooo flicking much. so how about you just stop talking about my father and back off about it? it's not your place to judge my family.

Obviously we don't know you personally and therefore can't analyze any actions of yours in real time... but seriously, the pretense of perfection is unbecoming of the imperfect.  Your assertion that you are in no way "prejudiced" is more evidence of your maturity level.

oh my god. prejudice is making an opinion about somebody or a group of people before you know about them or have taken the time to learn about them.
i've learned about homosexuals. hell, i know a lot of homosexuals. how can you say i dont research what my opinion on this issue when i clearly have?

Maybe someday you'll understand that.

stop treating me like a damn kid. jesus christ, what do i have to do to get a little respect around here?
no, i dont use words like "assertion," or "pretense." but that doesn't make me stupid or uneducated. my opinions, ESPECIALLY this one, are based off of my personal experiences and what i've learned. how in any way is that prejudiced or immature? last time i checked, that's called not being prejudice...

i'm not a flicking kid. stop treating me like one. and even if you think i am still a kid, then shut the fudge up and treat me like a flicking adult anyways. if i get lost, then won't that show me my place?
i'm tired of people thinking i'm some dumbass kid who doesn't know anything. i know a shitload more than a hell of a lot of adults.

you call me immature, but you won't just let it go and treat me like an intelligent human?
and you insult my father even thought i've said many times that it offends me? how is that mature at all?
Stop throwing so many goddamn stones from you're little glass throne you sit on.


Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3290, old post ID:59987

[Stasi]

I'm done posting in here. If you want to discuss this further, please PM me and spare the rest of the forum.

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3290, old post ID:59992

[Chyse]

Edit: thinking about what i said....it needed to be deleted....lol

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3290, old post ID:59999

[Bookworm]

Edit: thinking about what i said....it needed to be deleted....lol

Hey, you still have the opportunity to delete stuff. You did an awful lot of swearing in your last couple of posts, and while we don't have as tight a word filter as we used to (those were the days), we still don't make a practice of swearing here in the manner in which you did. I know you want us to consider you as an adult, but the locker room type threats and the swearing sure didn't help your cause any. I'm just saying.

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3290, old post ID:60003

[Chyse]

Edit: thinking about what i said....it needed to be deleted....lol

Hey, you still have the opportunity to delete stuff. You did an awful lot of swearing in your last couple of posts, and while we don't have as tight a word filter as we used to (those were the days), we still don't make a practice of swearing here in the manner in which you did. I know you want us to consider you as an adult, but the locker room type threats and the swearing sure didn't help your cause any. I'm just saying.

Sorry, but I don't take lightly to people insulting my family. Especially if you know nothing about them.
But the comment i posted was uncalled for and un-justifiable. So it definately shouldn't have been there.

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3290, old post ID:60004

[Clueless]

even so, a little too much swearing in that other post. maybe edit it?

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3290, old post ID:60023

[Chyse]

even so, a little too much swearing in that other post. maybe edit it?

*sigh* if you insist

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3290, old post ID:60030

[Clueless]

even so, a little too much swearing in that other post. maybe edit it?

*sigh* if you insist

i do =]

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3290, old post ID:60034

[Chyse]

even so, a little too much swearing in that other post. maybe edit it?

*sigh* if you insist

i do =]

fine....i did it. happy now?

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3290, old post ID:60039

[Clueless]

*sigh* if you insist

i do =]

fine....i did it. happy now?

profoundly

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3290, old post ID:60050

[Chyse]

i do =]

fine....i did it. happy now?

profoundly

good.

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3290, old post ID:60052