everything possible?

scherzo · Post by **scherzo** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:38 am

So the Western God ( the Father of Jesus ) can do anything. All powerful and omnipotent
Omnipotence (literally, "all power") is power with no limits or inexhaustible, in other words, unlimited power

So what I wanna know is, "Can God create a rock so heavy that even he cannot lift it?"

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Bookworm · Post by **Bookworm** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 6:34 am

What exactly makes you think omnipotence means God can do anything?The Bible says God cannot lie, so clearly God does not have the power to do anything. I believe that God has the power to do anything that is within the character of God to do. I don't think that would include creating a rock so big He could not lift it.

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Clueless · Post by **Clueless** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:12 am

and why would he want to anyway? i mean what would he do with it?

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FloodG8-9595 · Post by **FloodG8-9595** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 12:46 pm

Bookworm wrote: What exactly makes you think omnipotence means God can do anything?The Bible says God cannot lie, so clearly God does not have the power to do anything. I believe that God has the power to do anything that is within the character of God to do. I don't think that would include creating a rock so big He could not lift it.

So you’re saying that God cannot be by definition omnipotent? If he was then not only could he lie he could make said rock. If God is restricted by rules (who told him he couldn't lie?) then is he anymore than an advanced consciousness that is held in place by a series of beliefs gained either through teachings or logical understanding of the universe over time?
Or are you saying that while God COULD do these things that he does not because of his character and his own decisions not to engage in such stupidity.

So the Western God ( the Father of Jesus ) can do anything. All powerful and omnipotent
Omnipotence (literally, "all power") is power with no limits or inexhaustible, in other words, unlimited power

So what I wanna know is, "Can God create a rock so heavy that even he cannot lift it?"

Now I address the question directly. If God is truly omnipotent could he make a rock so heavy that even he could not lift it?

Well we have to take into account what we know about weight as it relates to gravity and size. It'd have to be a hell of a big rock if the (God) can put whole galaxies into place. While I don't think God would go through such a trivial endeavor I think that he could indeed make a rock so heavy he couldn’t lift it physically (if he even has a physical body) but then he would just unmake it so he wouldn't have to lift it and then remake it where he wanted. One could also venture that once God created a rock (being omnipotent) that he wouldn't have to move it because it would always be where he wanted it or where it needs to be making the question null and void.

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scherzo · Post by **scherzo** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:33 pm

Clueless wrote: and why would he want to anyway? i mean what would he do with it?

he wouldn't lift it thats for sure

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scherzo · Post by **scherzo** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:45 pm

Bookworm wrote: What exactly makes you think omnipotence means God can do anything?The Bible says God cannot lie, so clearly God does not have the power to do anything. I believe that God has the power to do anything that is within the character of God to do. I don't think that would include creating a rock so big He could not lift it.

my believes of Gods omnipotence is irrelivant to the question. floodg8 seemed to adress the second part very well.

However I am very interested by your reply, It redifines the definition of omnipotence into 'God's character'. - changing definitons is acceptable as Jane Goodall observed and her mentor Louis Leakey said: "Now we must redefine tool, redefine man, or accept chimpanzees as humans."

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scherzo · Post by **scherzo** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:01 pm

FloodG8-9595 wrote:
we have to take into account what we know about weight as it relates to gravity and size. I think that he could indeed make a rock so heavy he couldn’t lift it physically but then he would just unmake and then remake it where he wanted.

once God created a rock it would always be where he wanted

while bookworm delt with God's character, you addressed the character of the universe. We have a very 'limited' understanding of the univers, where ironically the common thought is that the universe is 'unlimited' . The conclusion here is because of our understanding the universe has 'limits' - even though we believe it to be unlimited. Much can be said to be true of our understanding of God, we believe Him to be omnipotant, however our own understanding limits His power in the form of one simple question, ' can He make a rock He cannot lift

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FloodG8-9595 · Post by **FloodG8-9595** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:31 pm

well put

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Clueless · Post by **Clueless** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:58 pm

well with him being perfect and holy its impossible for him to lie, lying is unholy. besides, if he could lie, who would trust him?

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Reaper · Post by **Reaper** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:14 pm

Why do people ask that question?

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FloodG8-9595 · Post by **FloodG8-9595** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:20 pm

Reaper wrote: Why do people ask that question?

So that people will respond to it

or

So that people like you will ask why they ask it ... also

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Clueless · Post by **Clueless** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:24 pm

cuz they know we cant exactly answer it. if we say no then they'll say well hes not all powerful then, if we say yes, then he wouldnt be able to lift it and then he still wouldnt be all powerful. we dont have the minds to comprehend his power

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FloodG8-9595 · Post by **FloodG8-9595** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:31 pm

we dont have the minds to comprehend his power

Some people would say we just don't have minds.

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Reaper · Post by **Reaper** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:32 pm

Exactly Clueless.

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FloodG8-9595 · Post by **FloodG8-9595** » Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:41 pm

Clueless wrote: well with him being perfect and holy its impossible for him to lie, lying is unholy. besides, if he could lie, who would trust him?

What you're talking about here is the debate over Omnipotant Benevolance which is a difficult conversation in and of itself.

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:45 am

I dont bother trying to comprehend some of these things as we dont have the mind to understand his power to the fullest exent, like clueless said.

The fact that God has always existed and never had a beginning, baffles my mind, thinking of how it was before the universe baffles my mind too, like we could say it was simply pitch black, but black is still something, its still substance, there was not even any substance before. And even if he did have a beginning (which is not the case), what was before that, and .... *mind circuit breaker flips to avoid damage, and proceeds with a physical memory dump*

To make things simple I like to think of God as being a server admin to a UO server, and this world is actually powered by a server and we are simply characters. Everything is scripted, such as weather, creatures, etc. That's why when people go hunting, we normally dont run out of animals, because there are spawners set, so they just respawn.

We go to school to level up ourselves so we can farm resources and get further in the game.

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Clueless · Post by **Clueless** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:52 am

leave it to red to turn this discussion into a computer game

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FloodG8-9595 · Post by **FloodG8-9595** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:28 am

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Clueless · Post by **Clueless** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:04 pm

ahahaha i love it.

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scherzo · Post by **scherzo** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 3:35 am

Clueless wrote: leave it to red to turn this discussion into a computer game

sounds more like the matrix to me

you know the 'architect' 'oricale' 'neo' stuff

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scherzo · Post by **scherzo** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 3:40 am

Bookworm wrote: What exactly makes you think omnipotence means God can do anything?The Bible says God cannot lie, so clearly God does not have the power to do anything. I believe that God has the power to do anything that is within the character of God to do. I don't think that would include creating a rock so big He could not lift it.

you have either been taught very well, or we have the same source

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotence

God is able to do everything that is in accord with his own nature (thus he is not able to lie, for instance, since what God speaks is truth by definition). God is able to intervene in the world by superseding the laws of physics and probability, since they are not part of his nature, but constructs of a physical world

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Reaper · Post by **Reaper** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:28 pm

scherzo wrote: So the Western God ( the Father of Jesus ) can do anything. All powerful and omnipotent
Omnipotence (literally, "all power") is power with no limits or inexhaustible, in other words, unlimited power

So what I wanna know is, "Can God create a rock so heavy that even he cannot lift it?"

The "western god" is the Christian god. It's not a "west" thing.

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Bookworm · Post by **Bookworm** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:42 pm

scherzo wrote:
Bookworm wrote: What exactly makes you think omnipotence means God can do anything?The Bible says God cannot lie, so clearly God does not have the power to do anything. I believe that God has the power to do anything that is within the character of God to do. I don't think that would include creating a rock so big He could not lift it.

you have either been taught very well, or we have the same source

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotence

God is able to do everything that is in accord with his own nature (thus he is not able to lie, for instance, since what God speaks is truth by definition). God is able to intervene in the world by superseding the laws of physics and probability, since they are not part of his nature, but constructs of a physical world

I guess I must have been taught well then, because I had never seen that wikipedia page.

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scherzo · Post by **scherzo** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:05 pm

Reaper wrote:
scherzo wrote: So the Western God ( the Father of Jesus ) can do anything. All powerful and omnipotent
Omnipotence (literally, "all power") is power with no limits or inexhaustible, in other words, unlimited power

So what I wanna know is, "Can God create a rock so heavy that even he cannot lift it?"

The "western god" is the Christian god. It's not a "west" thing.

you are right, I will definatley stand corrected. Very good observation.

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scherzo · Post by **scherzo** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:12 pm

Bookworm wrote:
I guess I must have been taught well then, because I had never seen that wikipedia page.

Very good

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