Update [Dec 23 07] - Spells, Talismans and Random stuff

Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:23 pm

*PVM SDI cap is now 350 instead of 300. (this counts slayers, as well as SDI property, and modifyers) PVP SDI property cap is still 15 but spellweaving buffs and other future additions can go past it.

*Bloodwood spirit now comes with infinite charges. Existing ones have been auto changed at server startup

*Talisman recharge time does not get reset when unequipped - this was actually not how it was meant to be.

* Peerless master key expiary will actually update even if the key is not moved around in bag. (added timer with InvalidateProperties())

* Mobiles can no longer block rune locations

* Upon completion of a bod quest, the timer before doing another is set to a random interval between 1 and 5 minutes, rather then a few hours.

* Explosion pots have been capped at 50 for pvp, 100 was way too high

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d. · Post by d. » Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:01 pm

what do you mean exactly "explo pots have been capped at 50".

with gm alchemy and 75 ep, my pots do 20, same with 50 ep=20 dmg, 25 ep= 20 dmg, 0ep= 20 dmg.

so if you have alchemy EP is useless? but if you have ep u dont need alchy? i dont understand how this work exactly.

i also tested a character with 0 alchemy and 0 enhance potions. the pots were doing 14-15 dmg to 60 fire.

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:08 pm

They're capped at 50 fire damage, they were 100, which was a tad too high per potion. I'm still trying to find a balanced medium for this, so this is not set in stone.

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d. · Post by d. » Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:11 pm

yea, i just thought i'd let you know what i've tested. i know nothing is set in stone on here and that you're always looking to make improvements. I just thought it was a little weird gm alchemy was practically the same as using 25% on items.

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:12 pm

for explo damage it might not do a difference depending on the cap (for pvp) but will for pvm, as well as other pots. Alchemy goes up two ways, it gives natural SDI + increases the SDI property cap, so it can make a big difference depending on the application.

What I could do as well is give a chance for explosion pots to critical, which would give a small chance to bypass the cap. Maybe 10% or something.

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sliptongue69 · Post by **sliptongue69** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:23 am

Red Squirrel wrote:* Upon completion of a bod quest, the timer before doing another is set to a random interval between 1 and 5 minutes, rather then a few hours.

Are you sure about this? If this really were implemented, then it sounds like people could do a quest back to back.

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:43 am

Yeah I was thinking, the quests do require a some work, so not like you can totally mass do them. You can maybe do a couple back to back if you have lot of resources but at one point you still have to go out and mine/lumberjack/kill dragons etc. If you cancel the quest though, then you're out of luck and have to wait.

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dprantl · Post by **dprantl** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:31 am

The SDI PvM cap sucks. An archer with AI and mana leech can hit anything like it has 0 resists and get more damage output than a mage could ever do even before this change. I don't know why you put this in, it's not like anyone was asking for it

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sliptongue69 · Post by **sliptongue69** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:33 am

Red Squirrel wrote:Yeah I was thinking, the quests do require a some work, so not like you can totally mass do them. You can maybe do a couple back to back if you have lot of resources but at one point you still have to go out and mine/lumberjack/kill dragons etc. If you cancel the quest though, then you're out of luck and have to wait.

Part of my point was, that it doesn't reset down to a few minutes. It still takes an hour or two.

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:33 pm

Not really, with the cap you can still hit like 100+ damage fireballs, not to mention 300 damage flame strikes. Its next to impossible to even reach that cap without double slayer, which is very hard to get in first place. I just put it there mostly as a safety guard so people don't down stuff way too easily if they somehow manage to get like 200 SDI + doubles slayers, or something crazy like that.

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sliptongue69 · Post by **sliptongue69** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:48 pm

While we are on spells...think you could bump FS? :-/ Since AoS it's become just as good as explo or ebolt, which is bogus as it's not nearly as easy to cast. Takes up a lot more mana too.

For now, enjoy the holidays.

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:06 pm

Yeah true I find it often does not do as much damage as it should compared to other spells. Think it was maybe lowered for pvp, so I'll have to see if it would be viable to up it a bit, if not, at least up it for pvm.

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d. · Post by d. » Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:09 pm

if you want to talk about weak damage in AoS, look at mindblast. It used to be a staple spell pre-aos, now i think im the only one who uses it (thought i shouldn't, it suxxors

).

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dprantl · Post by **dprantl** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:41 pm

Red Squirrel wrote:Not really, with the cap you can still hit like 100+ damage fireballs, not to mention 300 damage flame strikes. Its next to impossible to even reach that cap without double slayer, which is very hard to get in first place. I just put it there mostly as a safety guard so people don't down stuff way too easily if they somehow manage to get like 200 SDI + doubles slayers, or something crazy like that.

I'm almost hitting the cap with one slayer and 60 SDI. When I equip another slayer, I get maybe 10 more dmg out of a fireball (which is about 15% more).

Basically this has made either double slayers useless, or has made even 5% SDI useless if you have double slayers. Yes, double slayers are extremely hard to acquire. So what? We should make them not useful at all because of that, and make it so that there is no point in acquiring them?

I dunno, but with double slayers and 60 SDI it was still pretty damn hard (and long) to down bosses. For example, now I bet if I try Dreadhorn it will take me hours to solo him; this change effectively halves my damage to him. An archer/dexxer would be much easier for this task more than ever before. I guess mortal & AI mana leech archer is the way to go from now on

The cap set at 350 SDI is too low.

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theindigothief · Post by **theindigothief** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:03 pm

I guess I dont see what you are saying . . . you are saying that you were doing well over the 300% SDI before this cap was implimented?

My question is that since dexxers have a 300% DI cap why do you think mages should be exempt of this?

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dprantl · Post by **dprantl** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:49 am

theindigothief wrote:I guess I dont see what you are saying . . . you are saying that you were doing well over the 300% SDI before this cap was implimented?

My question is that since dexxers have a 300% DI cap why do you think mages should be exempt of this?

Like I've said before, because archers can use AI and hit something that has 90% resist like it has 0. Archers can mortal mobs so they cannot heal. Archers can hit twice in one shot. Archers can hit the mob's weakest resist every time, while mages are pretty much locked into fire and energy damage. Come on guys, I've hunted with Hector in the past and I know what kind of damage he can dish out. I'm making an archer now and will prove it.

Also, the way it is now, you hit the cap with one slayer and ~60SDI (due to the slayer amplifying suit SDI). You can get higher PvM spell damage even on OSI, where things are usually nerfed out of existence.

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sliptongue69 · Post by **sliptongue69** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 12:08 pm

dprantl wrote:
theindigothief wrote:I guess I dont see what you are saying . . . you are saying that you were doing well over the 300% SDI before this cap was implimented?

My question is that since dexxers have a 300% DI cap why do you think mages should be exempt of this?
Like I've said before, because archers can use AI and hit something that has 90% resist like it has 0. Archers can mortal mobs so they cannot heal. Archers can hit twice in one shot. Archers can hit the mob's weakest resist every time, while mages are pretty much locked into fire and energy damage. Come on guys, I've hunted with Hector in the past and I know what kind of damage he can dish out. I'm making an archer now and will prove it.

Also, the way it is now, you hit the cap with one slayer and ~60SDI (due to the slayer amplifying suit SDI). You can get higher PvM spell damage even on OSI, where things are usually nerfed out of existence.

Mages can hit with any resistance type. Pure mages, however, can only hit with magical resistances. (Fire, Cold[harm/mind blast], Poison[poison], and Energy) With the current changes tho, my new necro mage rapes. With dbl slayers she can easily do 500+ damage quicker than any archer. You don't sound like a very experienced mage, dprantl.

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dprantl · Post by **dprantl** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 4:37 pm

sliptongue69 wrote:Mages can hit with any resistance type. Pure mages, however, can only hit with magical resistances. (Fire, Cold[harm/mind blast], Poison[poison], and Energy) With the current changes tho, my new necro mage rapes. With dbl slayers she can easily do 500+ damage quicker than any archer. You don't sound like a very experienced mage, dprantl.

I didn't want to write an essay about it so I tried to keep it short. Don't worry, I know everything there is about mages. Harm is too little damage to be too useful on a high HP mob. Mindblast is not affected by slayers (unless this has been changed with these updates?). Corpse skin will lower a target's fire/poison resist and adds some to the damage, but nothing compared to AI.

Go and try to solo Dreadhorn. Get all the keys yourself, then go and kill him yourself. Tell us how long it takes you with your necromage and how many times you die. Then do it with an archer and compare difficulties. This is exactly what I'm going to do and will RPV the results and compare them.

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theindigothief · Post by **theindigothief** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 6:51 pm

Exactly, take one of the two only completely decked out archers(going by what I have heard via the fourms and whatnot) and CLAIM that they are the norm.

Complain much?

If every class did the same in PvP and PvM what flavor woul their be? Some are better at PvM and some at PvP.

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DOCTOR THUNDER · Post by **DOCTOR THUNDER** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 7:16 pm

Altar, I am not going to try to respectfully disagree with some of your points.

If the SDI cap has nerfed your character then you have a right to disagree with it. Was there no sdi cap on pvm before red put in the pvp/area effect sdi? If there was no cap, then how much damage difference is there from then to now?

Expecting dexxers and mages to have the same damage output in pvm is somewhat unrealistic. Dexxers are far better suited for pvm, with archers being the king of tough monster pvm. Mages cannot get a spellbook with SSI, DI, hitspell, and slayer on it. Pure mages cannot have the healing capacity of a 150+stam dexxer. Dexxers are also easier to suit up for pvm, and I believe osi had a reason for that.

On the other hand, mages and especially necromages are superior for pvp. If you have a good connection, good timing, and know what to cast, you have far more options than a dexxer. They are just different types of characters that do better in different situations.

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sliptongue69 · Post by **sliptongue69** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:30 pm

I see no reason to whine about pvm...if one class is better than another vs mobs, who cares? When putting mind vs mind, then it becomes a different issue, why you have a lot of whining about pvp templates. Not point any fingers with the last statement, as I am definitely guilty of it.

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dprantl · Post by **dprantl** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:40 pm

DOCTOR THUNDER wrote:Altar, I am not going to try to respectfully disagree with some of your points.

If the SDI cap has nerfed your character then you have a right to disagree with it. Was there no sdi cap on pvm before red put in the pvp/area effect sdi? If there was no cap, then how much damage difference is there from then to now?

I'm not trying to have them equal, I'm just trying to stop mages from being pushed further away from dexxers. There was no SDI cap before this change. The difference is *huge*; basically over 100% damage increase.

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:45 pm

I have a hard time believing anyone is even hitting the cap atm. Its at 3.5 scalar max, double slayer gives you 3.0 and 50 SDI gives you the other .5. You need one hell of a setup to be able to pull that off on every single creature. Some also don't have a slayer, so you'll be depending soly on suit SDI.

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sliptongue69 · Post by **sliptongue69** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:53 pm

On Akasha I have two elemental slayer books and about 60-70% SDI without an SDI book (for a slayer book). Plus 115 eval and 120 SS.

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dprantl · Post by **dprantl** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:58 pm

Red Squirrel wrote:I have a hard time believing anyone is even hitting the cap atm. Its at 3.5 scalar max, double slayer gives you 3.0 and 50 SDI gives you the other .5. You need one hell of a setup to be able to pull that off on every single creature. Some also don't have a slayer, so you'll be depending soly on suit SDI.

I don't know why, but I'm almost hitting the cap with one slayer and 60 SDI. Maybe it's because the SDI is calculated first, and then the slayer amplifies the suit SDI. I have tested this on separate mobs, and with my suit and one slayer, I will do for example 20 - 30 dmg fireball, then when I equip the second, I'll do like 28 - 38 or something similar. That leads me to believe that I'm almost at the cap with one slayer already, and the second slayer only adds a very slight increase before hitting the cap.

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