Un-nerfs

[d.]

Well, i understand some things have been too good in the past pvp-wise and they have been nerfed, but i think they should be re-evaluated. Some of the things were very good, but when edited they became completely ignored on here, such as evasion/bushido/parry and explo pots with alchemy. I think un-nerfing these things, along with others a bit would allow people to be more creative /w pvp templates. The pvp on here right now is pretty straight forward and there is nothing unique. Everyone uses the same skills, tries to get the same arties, and plays the same way. I think by un-nerfing some things to an extent may lead to more creative, diverse, and fun pvp.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1773, old post ID:11372

[sliptongue69]

I have no idea what you are talking about. "Same templates and same artis"?

There are three bleed/nox/disarm mages now, but other than that it's ranges. It's one of the most powerful templates so it gets used a lot. I think Revenge did the fork nox mage because of the archer templates.

As for the "same artis," I don't know anyone else to use only Hom, RBC, and Gypsy robe. I don't think Coach Z has any artis, other than maybe RBC, and Revenge just uses the same suit on boths his pvpers.

Doc uses Ebys old suits and has a relatively interesting (gimp imo) template, macer necro nox mage.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1773, old post ID:11373

[Death]

Well, i understand some things have been too good in the past pvp-wise and they have been nerfed, but i think they should be re-evaluated. Some of the things were very good, but when edited they became completely ignored on here, such as evasion/bushido/parry and explo pots with alchemy. I think un-nerfing these things, along with others a bit would allow people to be more creative /w pvp templates. The pvp on here right now is pretty straight forward and there is nothing unique. Everyone uses the same skills, tries to get the same arties, and plays the same way. I think by un-nerfing some things to an extent may lead to more creative, diverse, and fun pvp.

list which nerfs you are referring to or things you find should be re-evaluated. We can take a look at them and then run a poll for player vote.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1773, old post ID:11374

[d.]

well, i haven't been on here for a while, so thank you sliptounge for trying to correct me.

The old nerfs that crippled a few templates are:

20 second timer on evasion, parry/bushido isn't anywhere near effective as it used to be.

i'm not saying that there shouldnt be a timer, or it should be made less effective, but i think it's too harsh of a nerf.

making gm alchy give only 10% dmg and capping EP at 50%.

There should obviously be caps for explo potions, but ever since eby made his archer and they got nerfed, no one has made a succesful alchy-based pvp char from what i know.

a few spells are relativley useless in pvp now too. with a whole suit of arties and crazy + resist gear, corpseskin does basically nothing to anyone who knows what they are doing. Also, painspike's stamina damage is no longer noticable, due to the fact so many of the artifacts on here grant 2-10 stam regen. I just think maybe these should be looked at, with the vast amount of good arties on here these spells seem to be pretty weak IMO.

For those of you who have other oppinions, please state yours, don't attack mine. Thanks!

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1773, old post ID:11375

[Death]

well, i haven't been on here for a while, so thank you sliptounge for trying to correct me.

The old nerfs that crippled a few templates are:

20 second timer on evasion, parry/bushido isn't anywhere near effective as it used to be.

i'm not saying that there shouldnt be a timer, or it should be made less effective, but i think it's too harsh of a nerf.

making gm alchy give only 10% dmg and capping EP at 50%.

There should obviously be caps for explo potions, but ever since eby made his archer and they got nerfed, no one has made a succesful alchy-based pvp char from what i know.

a few spells are relativley useless in pvp now too. with a whole suit of arties and crazy + resist gear, corpseskin does basically nothing to anyone who knows what they are doing. Also, painspike's stamina damage is no longer noticable, due to the fact so many of the artifacts on here grant 2-10 stam regen. I just think maybe these should be looked at, with the vast amount of good arties on here these spells seem to be pretty weak IMO.

For those of you who have other oppinions, please state yours, don't attack mine. Thanks!

Okay those sound good. The evasion isn't 20 seconds anymore, it's about 10 seconds now but we can check to see if it's still too low (Remember, evasion is supposed to have a delay in between to prevent bad pvp tactics , but at the same time, it shouldn't be too high to be a righteous pain).

As for the enhance potion thing, we can look into alchemy's bonus on it. We could maybe do something like the alchemy bonus tacks on to the cap (So say cap is 50%, you can get 60% with alchemy bonus). We can re-evaluate the digits.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1773, old post ID:11377

[Red Squirrel]

The reason for EP was because without a cap people can heal like 100 hp with one pot, or get like 200 of each stat dex with one of each stat pot. There needs to be a control over that.

Ironicly OSI capped it right before I thought of doing it, so I ended up just going with what they did. And it only makes sense, you need alchy to have more advantage of the pots (higher cap).

For corpse skin I see what you mean, since corpse skin is supose to deduct resists, I could make it so you get 50 fire/poison, no matter how much above 70 you have. I can maybe do that with all the resist related spells. For painspike I could maybe make it so stam does not regen while its in effect. It does have an effect timer so it would be rather easy to add in.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1773, old post ID:11378

[d.]

yes, thats pretty much what i was thinking for the spells (corpse and PS). Though perhaps on here PS should also do slightly more stamina damage (not more normal magic dmg though).

As for alchy, I fully agree that there NEEDS to be a cap. But with alchemy only effecting one potion (explo) and not the rest, for it to only provide 10% dmg, seems week. If someone is going to put GM alchy in their template (and they have to have gm, squeezing in anything less won't give a bonus) they will be losing something else, 35 dmg from deathstrike, 100 resist, 100 healing, they will be losing something important. To sacrafice 100 skill points to only bonus one form of attact (that can backfire and blow yourself up if your target turns a corner or is too far away) and isnt the most consistent is a ballsy move by itself, but to have it only give you 10% more damage makes it completely pointless. If someone is cutting 100 SP out of their template for that, it should be worthwhile, and it will only help them offensiveley, they will be MUCH weaker defensivley.

As for EP on gear, it's iffy. There deffinatley needs to be a cap, but if someone is going to actually get 25% ep jewels, they will be losing other things.

by using an EP brace they loose psn resist and SS on essense of war
on necklace they can't use necklace of rage, which provides un-paralell ssi and stam regen AND resists.

by using EP earrings, they can't use tiger teeth, which give a total of 32 to stats, hci, dci, lmc

Idk, it just seems like if someone is going to sacrafice so much defensivley by having gm alchy, and sacraficing some of the best dexxer arts in the game, it should be worthwhile.

Ofcourse, it may take time to figure out a good balance, making alchy-based pvp chars not only viable, but balanced, but I think it would be interesting. I know you have many more things on your mind before you were to work on this, but thanks for reading it and considering it Red Squirrel =].

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1773, old post ID:11380

[Red Squirrel]

Actually GM alchy will affect everything else, since it affects the EP cap. So higher the cap, higher your heals, blesses, etc from potions.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1773, old post ID:11381

[d.]

ah, it must be different on here then, cuz on other shard GM alchemy only provided bonus to explo potion damage, nothing else.

If it's true GM alchy gives 10% ep on here, what's funny is:

100 sp in alchy= 10% EP

any jewelry with 25% EP, =to 250 alchemy, 250 SP, wow, i rather have gm nox + 120 ninjitsu for deathstrike or something =p.

Idk, my point is, if people are sacraficing 100 SP for alchy, it should be worthwhile, cuz there are so many skills and templates since SE, that almost any other skill is better than alchemy. Even on servers where there is just 50% EP and origional alchy bonus, the majority of the people play other templates because they are easier to play, and are more consistent (explo pots can be tricky).

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1773, old post ID:11382

[Death]

ah, it must be different on here then, cuz on other shard GM alchemy only provided bonus to explo potion damage, nothing else.

If it's true GM alchy gives 10% ep on here, what's funny is:

100 sp in alchy= 10% EP

any jewelry with 25% EP, =to 250 alchemy, 250 SP, wow, i rather have gm nox + 120 ninjitsu for deathstrike or something =p.

Idk, my point is, if people are sacraficing 100 SP for alchy, it should be worthwhile, cuz there are so many skills and templates since SE, that almost any other skill is better than alchemy. Even on servers where there is just 50% EP and origional alchy bonus, the majority of the people play other templates because they are easier to play, and are more consistent (explo pots can be tricky).

I agree with that. If you're going to spend 100% skill points on the alchemy, it should probably provide a real nice bonus. There's definately a need to balance the skill between EP and alchemy bonus.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1773, old post ID:11385

[Red Squirrel]

I just checked and alchemy has no effect on heal or cure etc... I could have sworn it did. So thats something I'll look into for sure. Think I'll make it add like 50 EP on top of item EP, or something, I'll have to find a balance.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1773, old post ID:11390

[d.]

thanks for looking into it =p. i'll think of other neat things. PvP is my main focus in the game, and I like it diverse, not boring cookie-cutter shards like Demise. Alchy is one of those skills that is VERY hard to use, is generally not as good as other skills regardless, and is VERY hard to make consistent, but it is always a lot of fun =].

Also, is it acceptable if i started thinking really outside-the box such as coming up with new additional bonuses for arms lore, camping etc that would be pvp-related? I think it'd be fun to see how creative people could get with crazy templates, not overpowered, just diverse. =p

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1773, old post ID:11391

[Death]

thanks for looking into it =p. i'll think of other neat things. PvP is my main focus in the game, and I like it diverse, not boring cookie-cutter shards like Demise. Alchy is one of those skills that is VERY hard to use, is generally not as good as other skills regardless, and is VERY hard to make consistent, but it is always a lot of fun =].

Also, is it acceptable if i started thinking really outside-the box such as coming up with new additional bonuses for arms lore, camping etc that would be pvp-related? I think it'd be fun to see how creative people could get with crazy templates, not overpowered, just diverse. =p

Toss those ideas in! We had a couple ourselves but never got around to them. Let us know your thoughts.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1773, old post ID:11393

[dprantl]

WRT Pain Spike and stamina damage, does it not always do stamina damage when it is cast (not the same as HP damage which has a time limit)? And it is one of the fastest casting spells in the game, so you could spam it and stam someone with it as it is.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1773, old post ID:11395

[Red Squirrel]

The thing with stam too is it takes less then a second for a paly to regen it anyway, so I've always found the stam drain to be useless, though not everyone is a paladin so it has its use against mages and non chiv dexxers. I would not be against slightly increasing how much stam it takes out, probably base it on resist spells too if its not already. (But still have a high enough base)

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1773, old post ID:11398

[Dumples]

When I do PvP against necro dexxers I find myself get drained completely as it is. I don't go out of my way to have tons of stamina regen stuff though. I'd want to make sure stamina drain effects are pretty well tested before they get changed.

As far as the alchemy bonus, I'm all for that. It goes along my other thread I had going related to Lumberjacking bonus and its use at GM levels to help give that 30% bonus it used to. It's a cool idea over all for craft skills to help give combat bonus' and have more reason to have them spread across useful characters instead of just having all the craft skills on one character that never leaves your house or town.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1773, old post ID:11406

[sliptongue69]

Yeah. I don't think pain spike needs to drain more stamina. Maybe SR could be weakened like MR has been. Would create more of a use for focus anyway. As it is now it's not hard to stam either of my mages (20-35ish stamina) but the thing is, I can recover it fast enough to not die. Just get myself healed back up.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1773, old post ID:11407

[d.]

yea, a nerf to stam regen may be good, though thatd really affect dexxers a lot more than mages. it would require them to either carry stam pot/have chiv for divine furry i guess.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1773, old post ID:11409

[sliptongue69]

It would affect mages more as dexxers tend to have LOADs more stamina so they just divine fury their way back on top.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1773, old post ID:11420