What do you guys think

Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 4:04 pm

What I find funny about this is how people complain so much about censorship, but have no problems with this.

This IS censorship. Censoring out the word Christmas. Funny how most people don't care. But go and censor the F word out of society, and man, will people be mad. This world is nuts.

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shenbaw · Post by **shenbaw** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 4:24 pm

Yeah, and what's even funnier about that is that the people who want our government to continue to refer to Christ and Christmas Trees (Joe) are also the people who utilize other forms of censorship more often than others...

Joe wrote: I'd appreciate it if you stop putting words in my mouth (ha what should i expect). By genuine i mean the average regular american, working their of to bay bills. Not some lazy bum sitting on their collecting welfare and not some rich politcan with nothing better to do then pick on Christmas. On to schools, most put up all three things, they have the jew candles and the kwanzanaman thingy ( ) and a santa claus doll or something.

The thing is Red, the "F" word is offensive to just about anyone. If not, then it's offensive to just about anyone with children (especially if they're present). The word "Christ" is offensive to just about no one (okay, maybe a couple people), but in reality it's simply exclusionary of people who practice and believe in other religions, which our government is not supposed to be.

If our city puts up a tree and they call it Christ's Tree, they are saying this tree is put up for Christians and only Christians. If they put up a tree and call it a Holiday Tree, they are saying this tree is for anyone who celebrates a holiday at this time of year.

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manadren · Post by **manadren** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 4:41 pm

I would call this a case of self-censorship, if you insist on calling it censorship. There's a big difference in me choosing not to use the F word and having the word removed or replaced for me. Just like there is a big difference between someone deciding to call a tree a holiday tree or having someone forcibly make the change the name for you. That tree in you front window with all the lights and ornaments on it, no one's saying you can't put christs name on that just because some guy in new york decided not to put the name on his.

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sintekk · Post by **sintekk** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 4:49 pm

Joe wrote: On to schools, most put up all three things, they have the jew candles and the kwanzanaman thingy ( ) and a santa claus doll or something.

At my school, the only holiday they mention this time of year is christmas. No other religious symbols are put up aside from a huge christmas tree (which they still call a christmas tree

)

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 4:54 pm

shenbaw wrote: Yeah, and what's even funnier about that is that the people who want our government to continue to refer to Christ and Christmas Trees (Joe) are also the people who utilize other forms of censorship more often than others...
Joe wrote: I'd appreciate it if you stop putting words in my mouth (ha what should i expect). By genuine i mean the average regular american, working their of to bay bills. Not some lazy bum sitting on their collecting welfare and not some rich politcan with nothing better to do then pick on Christmas. On to schools, most put up all three things, they have the jew candles and the kwanzanaman thingy ( ) and a santa claus doll or something.

The thing is Red, the "F" word is offensive to just about anyone. If not, then it's offensive to just about anyone with children (especially if they're present). The word "Christ" is offensive to just about no one

Exactly, so why ban it's use?

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sintekk · Post by **sintekk** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 4:56 pm

since we're editing other's posts...

Red Squirrel wrote: Exactly

WOAH! Shenbaw got you to agree with him! Can't believe he finally broke you, red

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 5:03 pm

I don't know if he broke me, he just can't make up his mind. For example he rejects God's existance in most threads, but in others he thanks him.

Any atheist saying "thank God" is an oxymoron.

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sintekk · Post by **sintekk** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 5:05 pm

Red Squirrel wrote: Any atheist saying "thank God" is an oxymoron.

He never said he was an atheist

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 5:12 pm

Indirectly he did.

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shenbaw · Post by **shenbaw** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 5:42 pm

Red, I, in fact, am not an atheist. I'd have to say I'm agnostic, if anything. Thanks for asking though.

Red wrote:
shenbaw wrote: The thing is Red, the "F" word is offensive to just about anyone. If not, then it's offensive to just about anyone with children (especially if they're present). The word "Christ" is offensive to just about no one
Exactly, so why ban it's use?

First of all, and this is the last time I'm going to try to drill this into your dense little head, NO ONE IS BANNING THE USE OF THE WORD CHRIST OR CHRISTMAS!!!

Second of all, the reason lies in the part of my quote that you conveniently left out in your response.

shenbaw wrote: in reality it's simply exclusionary of people who practice and believe in other religions, which our government is not supposed to be. If our city puts up a tree and they call it Christ's Tree, they are saying this tree is put up for Christians and only Christians. If they put up a tree and call it a Holiday Tree, they are saying this tree is for anyone who celebrates a holiday at this time of year.

Did you forget to read that part? Again Red, if you can, try and stretch you mind a little bit and think about this change in title of a tree not as an assualt on Christianity, but rather as a kind and inclusionary gesture towards those who choose to practice a religion other than Christianity, which we have plenty of down here in the States.

Also Red, I would absolutely love for you to point out where exactly I "reject God's existance in most threads." Actually scratch that. I would love for you to point out where exactly I reject God's existance in one, yup just one (1), thread. I've been brought up a Christian just like you, but I've also spent years studying Philosophy, in fact it's one of the things I've received degrees in. In no way do I think these things are incompatible, but lets just say it makes you think real hard about the things we know and the things we believe. Red, have you ever heard of the book The DaVinci Code? I think you would like it. If you can, you should grab a copy next time you're in the book store. I heard their making a movie out of it sometime in 2005 and Tom Hanks is expected to star, but the movie will no doubt pale in comparison to the book. Honestly, I think it would do you a world of good.

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 5:59 pm

Those who don't "do" christmas should simply just work that day. Why should they be off for anyway? It's just a random day like any other.

Everytime you say evolution really happened, you reject God, no use quoting each one since I won't waste my time with that. It's either God made the universe, or the accidental collision in a formless, matterless vacuum did. Common it's just common sense. One or the other.

Renaming something to get rid of a word, is basically banning that word. I don't hear of it happening all over, but if so many people agree on it, which I'm sure is the case (well according to this thread anyway) because of this wacked world, it will be more globolized. (now I see why my business teacher says that's a scary word.

) This is just the beginning and I'm speaking assuming it's going to keep going. But this one case is bad enough anyway.

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sintekk · Post by **sintekk** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 6:01 pm

Red Squirrel wrote: Everytime you say evolution really happened, you reject God, no use quoting each one since I won't waste my time with that.

Oh, man, there's a lot of Christians that don't know they're not Christians out there, red. You better get cracking if you want to inform all of them before the apocolypse

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 6:19 pm

Well it makes sense. If there's no God, then there's no God's son, and there's no calvary.... so if you don't believe in Jesus dieing on the cross for our sins, then by definition are not a Christian.

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FloodG8-9595 · Post by **FloodG8-9595** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 6:45 pm

Red Squirrel wrote: Indirectly he did.

Just for the record is ANYONE HERE an Athiest?.. anyone?... please speak up so we can get this

out of the way.

Red it's not nice to assume facts about people without asking, especially about their faith. I feel that when you say "You Athiests" you are speaking to everyone who disagrees with you.. and the fact is that I don't think anyone here is actually and aithiest.

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 6:53 pm

Well last time I checked, correct me if I'm wrong, an atheist is someone who does not believe in God.

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FloodG8-9595 · Post by **FloodG8-9595** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 6:53 pm

Red Squirrel wrote: Well it makes sense. If there's no God, then there's no God's son, and there's no calvary.... so if you don't believe in Jesus dieing on the cross for our sins, then by definition are not a Christian.

I wonder Red if you have read the majority of the things that have been adressed to you. We have pointed out again and again that It isn't black and white. I have gone out of my way to say things in such a way that I thought you might be able to comprehend because I once had the fear of Hell instilled in me. I thought I might be able to get it into your closed mind that believing in the gradual bettering of a species over time (Evolution) does not exclude the possibility of God. I would also like to say that I challenge you

I CHALLENGE YOU to offer me anything in science that completley disproves the possibility of the existance of God. In your mind Evolution and The Big band theory try to do just that.

Think just a little bit about a God that exisits within the relm of the laws which he created. The true miricals are all around us Red but your too caught up the holy glow to take advantage of Gods true gift to you.

Just 4 little letters

LIFE.. live it or keep on waving to the train bro. cause the world ain't stopping for your stubborness.

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FloodG8-9595 · Post by **FloodG8-9595** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 6:56 pm

Red Squirrel wrote: Well last time I checked, correct me if I'm wrong, an atheist is someone who does not believe in God.

yeah thats what it means... thats what I'm trying to point out to you. Agnostic would probably describe more of the people here so... try to be a little more understanding

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shenbaw · Post by **shenbaw** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 7:01 pm

But FloodG8, to him, an agnostic is an atheist.

*in the immortal words of a once great band*

Sad but True!

Daaa-Da-Da DaDaDaDaDaDa (repeat)

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FloodG8-9595 · Post by **FloodG8-9595** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 7:11 pm

shenbaw wrote: But FloodG8, to him, an agnostic is an atheist.

*in the immortal words of a once great band*

Sad but True! Daaa-Da-Da DaDaDaDaDaDa (repeat)

you
you're my mask
you're my cover, my shelter
you
you're my mask
you're the one who's blamed
do
do my work
do my dirty work, scapegoat
do
do my deeds
for you're the one who's shamed

anyway...

Red there is a difference but, I really do think you know that.

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Bookworm · Post by **Bookworm** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 7:18 pm

shenbaw wrote:
MrSelf wrote:
Bookworm wrote: Welcome class. Eveyone take your seats. In our first hour, we will study Hanakkah. In our second hour we will study Kwanza. In our third hour hour, we will sit quietly at our seats because we can't talk about Christmas.
Hmm, funny, 'cause I remember the opposite, lets talk about Christmas, and you other "people", just sit in the back and be quite. Or maybe the real issue is that you are depending on government to educate you, because they are the only ones this is an issue with.

There is no good way to incorporate religion into government and make it fair for everyone, on the other hand, there is no need either, churches are free to do as they please. Religion is a private issue that has no place anywhere but an individual's private life. A good person should have no problem applying this theory, it is simple respect.
Yeah, since when do public schools teach any type of religion? I recall having a Christmas party. I think we even got the occassional Christmas candy from the teacher. But in all my memories of my years in the public school system, I do not once remember hearing about, much less "studying", Hanakkah or Kwanza. Hell, I still don't know what "Kwanza" even is! Shows you how often I "studied" it in school. (NEVER) In fact, I don't think I was ever even exposed to any kind of academic study of any religious material until I went to college and started taking some Theology courses. What schools did you go to Bookworm? And what class was that in that you "studied" Hanakkah and Kwanza? I'd like to know, as I'm sure the American Public would like to know as well, where our hard earned tax dollars are being spent "studying" and teaching our children about religious holidays. Did you also spend an hour studying Ramadan?

I guess people aren't used to me being a little sarcastic in a thread. MrSelf is correct that there used to be an imbalance on the Christian side. Now the opposite is true. There are schools that teach about Hannakah and Kwanza and Ramadan. If a class is studying Israel, I would expect them to cover Hannakah in a discussion of Israeli customs. The same with Ramadan and Muslims. Yet they shy away from any discussion of Christianity, even as it relates to American history or American customs.

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 7:25 pm

FloodG8-9595 wrote:
Red Squirrel wrote: Well it makes sense. If there's no God, then there's no God's son, and there's no calvary.... so if you don't believe in Jesus dieing on the cross for our sins, then by definition are not a Christian.

I CHALLENGE YOU to offer me anything in science that completley disproves the possibility of the existance of God.

Easy. Evolution.

First line In the Bible: (the word)
In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth.
Before time existed, God (who always existed, as it's not mentioned that he apeared, it simply says God, meaning he's been around before the beginning) created the heavens, meaning the entire universe - basically everything, and the Earth is included in this.

Then in the new testament. (john)
In the beginning was the word, the word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
The bible is the word of God and everything was made Through God as stated in the Bible.

In God's word is Christianity beliefs, such as the fact that we are sinners and that Jesus died for us, and that God created everything.

In evolution, God did not create the Earth, so that makes the bible wrong, it makes the fact that there is a God, wrong. Then God did not really send his son to die on the cross and we're probably not even sinners anyway, and the bible is not really his Word since if it's false.

So it's either you believe in the Bible and God or don't.

I guess you could argue that you only believe in parts of the Bible but if a Book is only partially right, then how accurate is it really?

I feel much better knowing the Word is completely accurate, and that evolution isin't. Maybe God made evolution happen, but I would think it would be stated clearer in the Bible if it were the case, and it would go against the 6 days.

So it's Bible or Evolution.

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sintekk · Post by **sintekk** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 7:30 pm

"In evolution, God did not create the Earth, so that makes the bible wrong, it makes the fact that there is a God, wrong."
Where the

in evolution does it say that GOD DIDN'T CREATE THE EARTH?

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 7:31 pm

It says that the big bang created the Earth/Universe

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sintekk · Post by **sintekk** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 7:36 pm

Red Squirrel wrote: It says that the big bang created the Earth/Universe

Evolution and big bang are two different theories as far as I know

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shenbaw · Post by **shenbaw** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 7:39 pm

Okay, since Red ignored my inquiry...

Has anyone read The DaVinci Code???

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