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We must apologize but Submersia City (The place oracle of poseidon leads to) will be temporarily disabled due to a few flaws in design.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused. We will try and fix these flaws as soon as possible so that the vending can resume.

On the bright side, if we find a good solution to fixing the system's flaws, you can expect more goods to be sold on the vendors such as colored boards and sand.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2645, old post ID:16912

By flaws I assume you mean the fact that it sold all color ingots and a bunch of other things which could be sold at a profit?

I don't see how this is a flaw.
A) Oracles of Posiden are hard to get. I belive there is only the one I have on the whole shard, and I traded heavily to get it.

The Prices aren't cheap. You say that gold is too easy to get compared to the reasources, but this isn't fair. The Economy for reasources on AoV is broken. Reasources are inordinately hard to get or buy for even a semi reasonable price. With the oracle as it was it was a great potential gold sink (Even if I make a profit i would still be sinking a GOOD portion of every transaction back)

C) Removing these vendors without warning, withing 2 hours of me announcing I got the Oracle and was going to be selling the reasources is nothing if not extremely rude. Expecially considering I was actually IN submersia Using the vendors as of SW.

Well I honestly hope I don't get screwed over on this. I had to trade Gods Wrath, Quiver of Rage, and My pvp bow for the Oracle. Its not fair to just take them down with no warning like that. And as I belive i have the only oracle on shard at the moment this really only affects me. I certainly hope you plan to fix this in a timely manner, I do not want to have traded away such valuble things just to get the news that I can no longer make money off the deal (or at the very least make back an equivilent of what I traded off).

And I'm sorry if i come off upset. But I am. I traded heavy for a one of a kind item and mere hours after i do that and publically announce i did so, the entire place is empty. Even if you did not intend it as such it still feels very much like a personal attack.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2645, old post ID:16914

The problem lies in the fact that the vendors use the same fast restock as all other vendors, so its possible to pump literally unlimisted resources into the economy, which is actually worse then afk resource gathering as it is much faster. This would screw up the economy if we did not do something about it.

Its just a flaw we never considered.

Due to the server move going on no updates can go in but I have to have everything settled by the end of tomorrow at least to a point of being able to do regular updates. Stuff like backup scripts and security tweaking can wait a few days.

This is *IF* we move servers. I'm about to test if my idea will work, in about 15 minutes. Took all day to have the windows portion setup due to it being so slow to transfer stuff.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2645, old post ID:16916

I editted to state my case more eloquently. Sorry for the confusion it may have caused.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2645, old post ID:16917

Well I never got to even finish my personal buying of reasources. I was in the middle of it when SW happened and the vendors were all deleted. That was kind of unfair as well.

And why was it only considered when I started selling, and not when the previous owner of the Oracle did? I mean sellign the reasources here wasn't even my Idea, and all of a sudden when I get the Oracle and decide to make a buisness venture from it it all blows up in my face?

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2645, old post ID:16918

Well its not really your fault, its just we never realized the flaw in it, that a single person can easily completly flood the economy. What I had in mind is someone going there buying maybe a couple hundred as a beetle can only hold so much. I never considered bag of sending and other mediums making it possible to get literally unlimited resources, that someone without oracle would take months to get and even then.

It had to be done before it gets out of hand, last thing we want is 20 people in there doing the same, then resources wont be worth anything at all.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2645, old post ID:16920

But I had no warning, and was in the process of merely buying only my own personal reasources. And at the prices I can afford to sell at it would hardly flood the market. I mean, it still takes a pretty good amount of gold to get most of it. Plus is there any reason to take down all the vendors? I mean the ingots and maybe the leather vendors I can almsot see (I'm still upset that it was done while I was in the middle of buy my own stuff) but ALL the vendors? (I would have likes to be able to buy a few nets before the vendor was down too).

It just, well I know you didn't mean for it to be a personal thing, but it honestly seems like it was, I mean it would have been nice to simply let me finish buying my own stuff, its not like I got here for free, I traded some top of the line stuff for an oracle not 3 hours ago, and before i could even make use of it for my own personal stuff, the vendors are deleted. I know I'm repeating myself, but its only because it is VERY upsetting. I'm out of some good high end arties and a bow I would NEVER have traded for anythign else and I'm not goign to get the value back for the forseeable future.

Instead of deleting all the vendors, you could have temporarily disabled the Oracle and that would have allowed me to finish but make sure it was inaccessible until you fixed it.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2645, old post ID:16921

Staff - 5 PlasticMan - 0 Hector - 19

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2645, old post ID:16923

Red Squirrel wrote:The problem lies in the fact that the vendors use the same fast restock as all other vendors, so its possible to pump literally unlimisted resources into the economy, which is actually worse then afk resource gathering as it is much faster. This would screw up the economy if we did not do something about it.

Its just a flaw we never considered.

Due to the server move going on no updates can go in but I have to have everything settled by the end of tomorrow at least to a point of being able to do regular updates. Stuff like backup scripts and security tweaking can wait a few days.

This is *IF* we move servers. I'm about to test if my idea will work, in about 15 minutes. Took all day to have the windows portion setup due to it being so slow to transfer stuff.

There's an economy on this server?????????????

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2645, old post ID:16926

sliptongue69 wrote:

Red Squirrel wrote:The problem lies in the fact that the vendors use the same fast restock as all other vendors, so its possible to pump literally unlimisted resources into the economy, which is actually worse then afk resource gathering as it is much faster. This would screw up the economy if we did not do something about it.

Its just a flaw we never considered.

Due to the server move going on no updates can go in but I have to have everything settled by the end of tomorrow at least to a point of being able to do regular updates. Stuff like backup scripts and security tweaking can wait a few days.

This is *IF* we move servers. I'm about to test if my idea will work, in about 15 minutes. Took all day to have the windows portion setup due to it being so slow to transfer stuff.

There's an economy on this server????????

I can't believe I'm agreeing /w enkel, but QFT.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2645, old post ID:16927

Almost like saying there's pvp on here too.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2645, old post ID:16928

Enkel forgot to take his stupid pill thismorning, he's right on the ball.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2645, old post ID:16930

I guessing that was intended to say the economy sucks.

know why it sucks? because its so easy to get everything, and every time we make it harder people bitch about it so trying to find ways to fix these issues is like diffusing a bomb.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2645, old post ID:16931

Ok, to prove a point Ill be spending the day researching OSI, and the Big D and I'll post the prices for equivilent goods. I realize Gold is easier to get on here, but if you bear with me, the prices from my sale thread I'm fairly sure will prove to be equal to higher (At least for most) than either, and you also have to keep in mind that the profit margain is smaller, even if its faster. And You must also remember that the reason the margain is lower is because it would be sinking the gold.


On the Big D (this is based on two vendors within luna walls, they could be even cheaper on a remote vendor):
DC - 50-60 per
Shadow - 55-65 per
Copper - 60-70 per
Bronze - 70-75per
Gold - 75-80 Per
Aga - 90 per
Verite - 100 per
Val - 125 per

I will do some research on OSI prices.

So to state in an easy to understand format
Point: Gold is easier to get on AoV
Counter Point: Unlike other shards this is a partial gold sink

Point: Flooding the market with reasources could destroy the value of said reasources.
Counter-Point: There is NO market for reasources currently, not a single vendor sells bulk reasources. The reason for this is compared to everythign else on the shard ingots/boards are inordinately hard to get.

Point: Runics are somewhat easier to get on AoV
Counter-Point: Runics coem with less charges, and there are more arties avaiable to counter the increased numbers of runic made gear on the shard.

Point: This could destroy the market if 20 people had oracles and flodded the market.
Counter-Point: There is only one oracle right now, they are hard and/or very expensive to get. And to quote what Red said in another thread if it aint broke, don't fix it.

Point: Being able to use BOS in Submersia may make it too easy to get access to many many reaosurces.
Counter-Point: Make it like Gauntlet where BOS doesn't work, this would limit each visit to one beetle worth of stuff, and mean that you would need to spend time gathering water stones, thereby increasing the time it takes to "gather" these reasources.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2645, old post ID:16932

Plasticman - (-1) Squirrel - 15 Hector - 19 Bleez - 12 D. - 5

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2645, old post ID:16933

I agree with Plastic, you guys really screwed him on this one. If you put the vendors to regular refresh delay there is no point in buying those goods, they can be mined or chopped faster.

Seriously, shame on you staff. Thats not the way to treat one of the most active and best members of the valor community.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2645, old post ID:16939

tbh it was not my choice to fix it right away, I would have rather wait.

But every second 1000 of each resource was being introduced to the shard, and I knew it would take months, if years for the economy to recover from that huge influx had it been kept for the rest of the night and more days after that. Right now it was worthwhile for him to sell this on a vendor, but if I would of left it that way, you'd be seeing 1000 valorite selling for 10k because there would simply be too much of everything.


My plan is to make bags of sending not work, and we'll have to figure out whatever other way stuff can be brought out and disable that as well. The vendors will remain disabled for that time being. There will most likely be a delay as well.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2645, old post ID:16941

Alright, do I have to list the reasons why this was disabled so people can stop thinking about themselves for a second?

1) Bags of sending. These were never supposed to be allowed use in Submersia City. Ever wonder why there's no banker there? Guess why. Bag of sendings were supposed to be disabled so that was a little boo boo on our end.

2) Restock times. These were also not supposed to be instant to make up for the fact that the vendors would sell items cheap and items that cannot be bought anywhere else. However, because they are instant you can just sit around and run a buy macro. If you have enough gold, imagine how far you can take it. And to think, I initially wanted to put a minor artifact vendor in there. So glad I decided not to.

3) Bod quests. Submersia city was created before the introduction of bod quests so now the resources have a double effect which can negatively impact bod quests. Just load your bank up with a good 1mil ingot and just keep redoing the quests. Won't take long before valorite kits are selling for tots.

If you think we're centering you out? We're not. You're just the example in this unfortunate case because Submersia City hasn't been visited as much so we weren't aware of these problems until they've occured.

Think for a second. Why does the oracle of poseidon have 10 charges and can be recharged with water gems? Why 10 visits if it only takes 1 to horde?

Before any of you go all up in a rant, please think logically for a minute. Why make a miner, lumberjack, etc if I can make a fisherman, collect fabled nets or do some crazy trades for an oracle of poseidon that pretty much acts as an unlimited store for resources due to several flaws? I'd personally feel bad for all the miners and lumberjacks out there making a living when 1 person holds them by the balls and stocks their vendors with commodity deeds.

Vendors were removed to stop a major problem from occurring. Let's say for example, you knew your computer was about to get hacked, you'd do what it takes to stop it from happening right? Same idea here. We knew of the possible outcomes and stopped it before it got out of hand.

If everyone is going to get their knickers in a knot, I'll put the vendors back but I warn everyone, it's not going to be pretty and if you guys end up digging a hole a through the economy, we're not going to bail you out of it.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2645, old post ID:16943

How am I going negative by making legitimate points anyhow

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2645, old post ID:16944

I see your point Red, but it still seems that Plastic got the shaft on this one.

Here is a small analogy... Imagine you buy a car that you can drive 200 mph, but the first time you drive it the engine dissapears. Its no good now and you can't take it back, so you are screwed.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2645, old post ID:16945

DOCTOR THUNDER wrote:I see your point Red, but it still seems that Plastic got the shaft on this one.

Here is a small analogy... Imagine you buy a car that you can drive 200 mph, but the first time you drive it the engine dissapears. Its no good now and you can't take it back, so you are screwed.

Well if he's still not satisfied with the oracle of poseidon after we make necessary changes, I will gladly exchange the oracle for a different leviathan artifact. We're not trying to shaft anyone here.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2645, old post ID:16948

DOCTOR THUNDER wrote:If you put the vendors to regular refresh delay there is no point in buying those goods, they can be mined or chopped faster.

I would have thought mining valorite would take more time than buying it.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2645, old post ID:16949

I announce the winners.

In first Seer Death.

His onslaught of logical points shattered the hopes of anyone else winning over the staff with their illogical points.

In second Doctor Thunder

His support for the players of AOV and their retarted points very much shows his loyalty to the common people.

In third Plastic Man

His comedic points make me laugh everytime i read them. But in all fairness he did get the shaft.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2645, old post ID:16954

let me have a few more beers and I will try for spot #1. Death is at an advantage because he is argueing with a sober Doc Thunder.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2645, old post ID:16957

Nosferatu wrote:I announce the winners.

In first Seer Death.

His onslaught of logical points shattered the hopes of anyone else winning over the staff with their illogical points.

In second Doctor Thunder

His support for the players of AOV and their retarted points very much shows his loyalty to the common people.

In third Plastic Man

His comedic points make me laugh everytime i read them. But in all fairness he did get the shaft.

That pretty much sums up everthing in the shortest lines possible. Karma +10.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2645, old post ID:16958