Anything Forums

There was a school shooting on November 7, 2007. It scares me unbeliveably, having to worry for my brother, all my freinds in eighth grade, and my own safety in this sucsession. I don't know if I should go to high school or not. I'm really scared. I don't know what to say or do... What if I got shot as a freshman in high school? What If my BROTHER got shot?? Im terrified on this matter.



I don't feel invincible in my mother's arms anymore...

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3412, old post ID:62546

Link?

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3412, old post ID:62555

link

School shooter kills 8, self in Finland

By MARIUS TURULA Associated Press Writer
© 2007 The Associated Press

TUUSULA, Finland — An 18-year-old gunman opened fire at his high school in this placid town in southern Finland on Wednesday, killing seven other students and the principal before mortally wounding himself in a rampage that stunned a nation where gun crime is rare.

Police were analyzing YouTube postings that appeared to anticipate the massacre, including clips in which a young man calls for revolution and apparently prepares for the attack by test firing a semiautomatic handgun.

Investigators said the gunman, who was not identified, shot himself in the head after the shooting spree at Jokela High School in Tuusula, some 30 miles north of the capital, Helsinki. He died later at Toolo Hospital in Helsinki.

The teen killed five boys, two girls and the female principal with a .22-caliber pistol, police said, adding that about a dozen more people were injured while fleeing the school. Officials said more than 400 students ages 12 through 18 were enrolled.

Witnesses described a scene of mayhem at the school in this leafy lakeside community, saying the shooter prowled the building looking for victims while shouting slogans for "revolution."

Police Chief Matti Tohkanen said the gunman didn't have a previous criminal record. "He was from an ordinary family," Tohkanen said. He said the teen belonged to a gun club and had gotten a license for the pistol Oct. 19.

Gun ownership is fairly common in Finland by European standards, but deadly shootings are rare. Finnish media reported that a school shooting in 1989 involved a 14-year-old boy who killed two other students apparently for teasing him.

Investigators were searching for connections to the shooter and a possible motive in YouTube postings that appeared to reveal plans for Wednesday's deadly attack.

One video, titled "Jokela High School Massacre," showed a picture of what appeared to be the Jokela school and two photos of a young man holding a handgun. The person who posted the video was identified in the user profile as an 18-year-old man from Finland. The posting was later removed.

The profile contained a text calling for a "revolution against the system."

Another video clip showed a young man clad in a dark jacket loading a clip into a handgun and firing several shots at an apple placed on the ground in a wooded area. He smiled and waved to the camera at the end of the clip.

A third clip showed photos of what appeared to be same man posing with a gun and wearing a T-shirt with the text "Humanity is overrated."

Kim Kiuru, a teacher, said the principal announced over the public address system just before noon that all students should remain in their classrooms.

"After that I saw the gunman running with what appeared to be a small-caliber handgun in his hand through the doors toward me, after which I escaped to the corridor downstairs and ran in the opposite direction," Kiuru told reporters.

He said he saw a woman's body as he fled the building.

"Then my pupils shouted at me out of the windows to ask what they should do and I told them to jump out of the windows ... and all my pupils were saved," Kiuru said.

Terhi Vayrynen, a 17-year-old student, told The Associated Press that her brother Henri, 13, and his classmates had witnessed the assailant shoot the principal outside the school through their classroom windows.

She said the gunman then entered her brother's classroom shouting: "Revolution! Smash everything!"

When no one did anything, the attacker shot the television set and windows but did not fire at the youngsters, she said. Then he ran out and down the corridor.

Vivianna Korhonen, a student at the high school, told Finnish broadcaster YLE she feared for her life as news of the shooting spread through the building.

"We were terrified and afraid. We thought that we might die as he was still able to come to our classroom," she said. "We were informed all the time. We were calling our friends and asking for information."

Residents in Tuusula, a town of 34,000 people, said such attacks were unheard of in the area.

"Mostly nothing happens here, this is nice surroundings and not any criminals to talk of. This was a total surprise," said Reijo Pekka, whose son Arttu Siltala was at the school.

Students said the killer often wore the same clothes to school — brown leather jacket, black trousers and checkered shirt — and usually carried a briefcase.

Tuomas Hulkkonen, another student, said he knew the gunman well, adding that the teen had been acting strange lately.

"He withdrew into his shell. I had noticed a change in him just recently, and I thought that perhaps he was a bit depressed, or something, but I couldn't imagine that in reality he would do anything like this," Hulkkonen told Finnish TV broadcaster MTV3.

Experts warned that the shooting could inspire copycat attacks.

"An event like this in Finland might have an effect in the U.S.," said Christopher P. Lucas, a psychiatry professor at New York University.

He said YouTube provides a ready way for shooters to publicize their acts and provide some sort of justification.

Finnish Prime Minister Matti Vanhanen described the bloodshed as "extremely tragic" and declared Thursday a day of national mourning with flags to be flown half-staff.

___

Associated Press writers Matti Huuhtanen in Helsinki, Finland, and Malin Rising, in Stockholm, Sweden, contributed to this report.

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3412, old post ID:62556

Yeah its getting pretty bad.
I'm glad I'm out of school, since while those type of incidents are not happening in our area, they're bound to happen as our city grows.

Humans are one of few species that hunts on themselves.

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3412, old post ID:62565

humans, and snakes. what does that say about humanity?

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3412, old post ID:62573

Humans hunt themselves because we're more advanced than other animals. We can reason and have complex emotions. With such advanced thinking, we can have serious "malfuntions" (for lack of a better word) in our thinking. Such as, "i'm getting made fun of a lot, maybe if i shoot everybody and myself, they'll stop making fun of me." While yes, you won't hear any more teasing, that's not how you SHOULD be thinking.
Humans ability to have strong, complex emotions is what makes us so dangerous to ourselves. Take Love for instance. If your husband/wife cheats on you, most people would either work it out or get a divorce. However, some people feel so emotional about it, they feel the need to kill the other person. Their emotions are stronger than their reasoning, so they act illogically.
A Dog, in my opinion, can't love. If you've had a dog for 10 years, since it was a puppy, and it runs away and finds another home or you give it away or something, it doesn't feel sad. The dog might not eat for a few days because of it's confusion and reaction to a dramatic change, but it will eventually show affection towards it's new master.
So...would you rather us be stupid and non-violent, or smart and self-destructive?

Anyways...School shootings suck...physics is over...i'll type more in 7th period.

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3412, old post ID:62608

goalguarder12 wrote:
A Dog, in my opinion, can't love. .

Not to the extent a human can love, but, yes, animals like cats and dogs do have a bonding experience with their owner(s).

The dog might not eat for a few days because of it's confusion and reaction to a dramatic change, but it will eventually show affection towards it's new master.

affection af*fec"tion n.
1. fond attachment, devotion, or love

If a woman's husband dies and she gets married again, that doesn't mean she never loved her first husband. Just like if a dog leaves its first owner and goes to another, doesn't mean it never had an "affection" for the first.
And I am positive a person that works with animals will tell you that animals have a sense of love.


And unless the person is a cannibal, humans don't "hunt" each other.

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3412, old post ID:62610

I think the main difference is that most animals don't have guns. There is still fight and killing amongst the same species in the wild, just not as dramatic as it is with human beings.

Personally I thinks the issue lies not only in human emotion but in reason. The human mind has the incredible capacity to warp something simple and non-threatening into an issue of survival. There's also the human tendency for tribalism, which creates an us vs. them situation, separating people along thin, and often imagined lines in a situation where it is perceived that one group is trying to inhibit or destroy the other.

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3412, old post ID:62616

Dogs and other animals can definably love. In fact some are more effectionate then humans. Cats are a good example. Human love is not really true love most of the time, its more like "zomg sex!".

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3412, old post ID:62617

Red Squirrel wrote: Dogs and other animals can definably love.  In fact some are more effectionate then humans.  Cats are a good example.  Human love is not really true love most of the time, its more like "zomg sex!".

Red, i have two cats. They'll show affection towards anybody who has been in my house more than just a few times. I love them, but they just like when i pet them and make them feel good.

Manadren, i don't think the reason is we have guns and they don't, but i think you're right about the reasoning part.

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3412, old post ID:62632

manadren wrote: I think the main difference is that most animals don't have guns. There is still fight and killing amongst the same species in the wild, just not as dramatic as it is with human beings.

Personally I thinks the issue lies not only in human emotion but in reason. The human mind has the incredible capacity to warp something simple and non-threatening into an issue of survival. There's also the human tendency for tribalism, which creates an us vs. them situation, separating people along thin, and often imagined lines in a situation where it is perceived that one group is trying to inhibit or destroy the other.

Well said.

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3412, old post ID:62637

I agree.

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3412, old post ID:62808

I could be wrong, but, I was told anti-depressant medication could be a link to school shootings. I'm quoting a friend on that though.

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3412, old post ID:62882

Probably. Kids should not be allowed that stuff, in fact that stuff should be avoided by anyone, if your depressed find the source, fix it, live on, and win.

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3412, old post ID:62884

Red Squirrel wrote: Probably.  Kids should not be allowed that stuff, in fact that stuff should be avoided by anyone, if your depressed find the source, fix it, live on, and win.

For sure, its funny how anti-depressants can make you more depressed. And the FDA or whoever keeps passing these drugs saying nothing will happen.

This is just my opinion, but, I think that if you're put on a anti-depressant when you're young and you're still finding that voice to tell people, 'no I don't want to go onto that drug' its almost like the parents are finding something to blame other than the kid. Same thing with ADHD. I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was little. I'm sure every other kid my age had the same "signs and symptoms" of ADHD. I was the type of kid that just wanted to have fun. No work. Just fun. So they blamed it on ADHD. In a sarcastic voice I sometimes find myself mocking some doctors and saying stuff like "Oh, i'm sure he loves to do homework. I just think that the only reason why he hasn't been doing any is because of ADHD."

Thats just my 2 cents.

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3412, old post ID:62888

I somehow doubt anti-depressants are the cause of high school shootings. I mean, if you think about it for someone to do that maybe they are actually suffering from some serious depression, and maybe need the anti-depressants? And perhaps, just perhaps, that the drugs aren't enough on their own to resolve the issue.

When it comes to psychological issues like that, drugs can only do so much, and there's only so much a doctor can do for a patient that doesn't want help. And it's only that minimal amount of help that any legal system can force on anyone until they've done something horrible. In the end it comes down to the people that support this person, and whether or not they actually want to help.

This is not to say the anti-depressants never have adverse effects, but if you look too hard for the simple scapegoat, you miss the problem entirely.

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3412, old post ID:62896

Gubs wrote:

Red Squirrel wrote: Probably.  Kids should not be allowed that stuff, in fact that stuff should be avoided by anyone, if your depressed find the source, fix it, live on, and win.

For sure, its funny how anti-depressants can make you more depressed. And the FDA or whoever keeps passing these drugs saying nothing will happen.

This is just my opinion, but, I think that if you're put on a anti-depressant when you're young and you're still finding that voice to tell people, 'no I don't want to go onto that drug' its almost like the parents are finding something to blame other than the kid. Same thing with ADHD. I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was little. I'm sure every other kid my age had the same "signs and symptoms" of ADHD. I was the type of kid that just wanted to have fun. No work. Just fun. So they blamed it on ADHD. In a sarcastic voice I sometimes find myself mocking some doctors and saying stuff like "Oh, i'm sure he loves to do homework. I just think that the only reason why he hasn't been doing any is because of ADHD."

Thats just my 2 cents.

I agree with your thought about parents turning to disorders as a scapegoat. I'm diagnosed with ADHD, and i'm not sure i have it or not. Then again, i'm crazy hyper and weird when i'm not on meds. I think meds for something like ADHD at a young age are not a good idea. Kids are hyper and want to have fun all the time. That's being a kid.
Just like diagnosing teenagers who listen to emo music with depression and giving them meds. They may be depressed, but I don't think it's a disorder. I think it's their minds maturing. They crave independence and when they can't have it, they feel sad and upset. It's a reaction to things happening in your life, not a disorder.
Depression should be medicated later in life like 18 years +. After that, most kids have found independence or are mature enough to understand why things happen. If you're like 23 and still depressed for no appearent reason, then there is probably something wrong.

School shootings, i think, are a result of two things: bullying and lack of resources to deal with pain.
Bullying happens a lot at schools. i dont care what school you go to, you'll most likely find bullying. It happens at my school, and i go to a private catholic school. Bullying is a lot different than people percieve it in my opinion. People see bullying as shoving kids into lockers or calling kids names. Yes, that's bullying, but that type of bullying rarely ever happens. Usually bullying, in my experience, is exclusion. Telling a kid he or she can't hang out with your group of friends because he or she isn't good enough or something. Or as simple as not talking to somebody. Knowing they're alone and have nobody to talk to, but saying nothing, and sometimes even talking about them behind their backs. Even though nobody is being mean to them, they obviously feel out of place for some reason, and not caring about how somebody is feeling is bullying in my opinion.
Such things are the basis of bullying, from my experience.
Groups of friends help with this. When you're in a group of friends, you're somewhat immune to bullying. Yeah, you may get teased, but you've got a group to fall back on that will make you feel better. Inclusion gives people resources to cope.

Resources to deal with pain are things such as a group of friends, like i talked about above, an adult to talk to, or some close friend to talk to. My school has a "Campus Minister," a.k.a, the lady you can come talk to if you're feeling down for any reason. You can tell her about bullying, or anything that's bothering you, and she's the nicest person on earth. But a lot of schools don't have a system like that. When i went to public school, the only thing we had was a guidance counselor who was only responsible for our schedules and didn't care at all about us personally. So the only way to relieve pain was to have a group of friends to talk to or parents to turn to. Well, a lot of kids get bullied through exclusion as well as getting teased. So the group of friends option is impossible. And when it rains, it pours. Lots of kids who get bullied, also are having problems at home. And parents aren't a good option either. So, they're stuck. So they to turn to more destructive ways to feel better, such as self-destruction, drugs, or violence. Well, i myself am very afraid of pain. So cutting/other ways of self-destruction are out of the question. Drugs aren't always available or affordable, and not all kids see drugs as a way out. Violence is the alternative. Sadly, there are many kids who can get ahold of a gun if neccessary. Violence, in all honesty, feels like revenge. It's getting back at the people who hurt you, and that is why some kids choose violence over drugs or self-destruction. They get "payback."

People are quick to assume that the kids who lash out like this are crazy or insane, or mentally unstable.
Well fine. Mentally unstable maybe. But insane? I don't think so. Insane means they are different than most people. That there was something wrong with them. Is coping with intense amounts of pain insane? Is having so much hatred in your heart that you have no other escape but to do something drastic insane?
They're not insane in my eyes. Mentally unstable, yes. If you were never included in anything by anyone, if you were teased constantly, if you had nobody to turn to for help, wouldn't you be mentally unstable?
I don't in any way condone the actions of school shooters, but the problem doesn't only lie in the child who carries out the act of violence, but the children who lead him or her to act out such violence.

okay, so basically, bullying is a HUGE problem.
The solution, i think is acceptance. If kids were more accepting of other kids and less quick exclude eachother, these sort of things wouldn't happen as often, if at all.


sorry this is so long...i feel VERY strongly about this, since i was bullied from 3rd through 9th grade, i've thought about school shootings a great deal.

That's my two cents...though it's more like a dollar....


Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3412, old post ID:62926

My mind operates differently than yours apparently.

Stop education because of fear? My, sounds like society has quite the grip and influence on you.

I don't know why this would bug you more than any other death causes. "No man knows his hour." Why aren't you scared of being attack by an insane herd of killer rabbits that like to bite at throats?

Get over it, death happens every day. Be happy you're alive. And if a loved one dies, well, I don't know about you, but I'd be sad... But I wouldn't live my life as strongly as I did before because of it.

Oh, and your mother arms were never safe, although they're mentally a great help. Here's a little equation: Bullet>Mother's Arm.

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3412, old post ID:64191

Hermy11 wrote: My mind operates differently than yours apparently.

Stop education because of fear? My, sounds like society has quite the grip and influence on you.

I don't know why this would bug you more than any other death causes. "No man knows his hour." Why aren't you scared of being attack by an insane herd of killer rabbits that like to bite at throats?

Get over it, death happens every day. Be happy you're alive. And if a loved one dies, well, I don't know about you, but I'd be sad... But I wouldn't live my life as strongly as I did before because of it.

Oh, and your mother arms were never safe, although they're mentally a great help. Here's a little equation: Bullet>Mother's Arm.

*sigh* She wrote this the day of the event, and I might add, she's only like 12 or 13 years old.

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3412, old post ID:64234

I was truly quite phobic when I wrote that, and i did not edit it because i saw and knew it was melodramatic, but that was exactly how i felt. My mother was my safegaurd, she was what kept me safe. But as she gets older, and I do too, I see that I must be independent and my own person. When I die, I die. My mom is now fifty five and she is becoming weak. I am losing respect for you, Hermy. I comprehend quite a bit more than you may give me credit for. Please understand that i am fifteen, but that age betrays my maturity. Also understand I don't try to be anything I am not.


Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3412, old post ID:68430

Hermy11 wrote: My mind operates differently than yours apparently.

Stop education because of fear? My, sounds like society has quite the grip and influence on you.

I don't know why this would bug you more than any other death causes. "No man knows his hour." Why aren't you scared of being attack by an insane herd of killer rabbits that like to bite at throats?

Get over it, death happens every day. Be happy you're alive. And if a loved one dies, well, I don't know about you, but I'd be sad... But I wouldn't live my life as strongly as I did before because of it.

Oh, and your mother arms were never safe, although they're mentally a great help. Here's a little equation: Bullet>Mother's Arm.

When did I say stop education because of fear?

While no man knows his hour, all men should try to make their lives the most fulfilling that they can. One way to do more things to make your life fulfilling is to live past 16. I'm not worried about an insane herd of killer rabbits because there is a much better chance of me being killed downtown, worrying about things that only have happened in movies is irrational and would only cause unneccessary stress. Worrying about things that could end your life before you are finished making it great is rational.


Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3412, old post ID:68456

I worry about school shootings more than insane killer rabbits because not only will you die, but you will watch the people you love and know and care about die, maybe right next to you. I know that in the columbine shootings a girl sat next to her friend under a table and watched her brains get blown out.

She survived, but she never recovered. Can you imagine watching something like that happen? I would want to die. It seems like an impossibility, but that happens, and when it happens, you can't forget.

And also, you may/will know the shooter, and that makes all the difference in the world. Imagine your friend even, shooting people you love. It has to be so painful, so unhuman. I can't imagine.

And chyse, I wouldn't classify a shooting under lashing out. I think it is a sign of mental issues. If a kid wants to lash out, punch a kid, beat up someone maybe, but killing someone, killing a child especially, is going way too far.
And they open these schools again. Imagine GOING BACK, and every day in the halls you see the faces of people dying.

Impossible.

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3412, old post ID:68546

It's gotten pretty bad. Seems there's a school shooting at least once a month now.

Though, look at the bright side, there's a suicide bombing nearly every day in Israel. If you put both together, at the end of the month there are probably more Israelites killed.

Sad, sad world we live in.


Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3412, old post ID:68547

flowergirlajg wrote: And chyse, I wouldn't classify a shooting under lashing out. I think it is a sign of mental issues. If a kid wants to lash out, punch a kid, beat up someone maybe, but killing someone, killing a child especially, is going way too far.

I agree it's going too far. And it's not what a sane person thinks of doing when lashing out (like punching a kid). However, I do think It's both mental issues and the inability to contain an intense feeling of anger and self-hatred. It is lashing out in the sense that the people who do it are acting radically on a super-concentrated emotion. Their mental state doesn't allow them to see the moral wall that says "Don't do this." And their intense emotion forces them to lash out in a way that mentally sound people don't.

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:3412, old post ID:68600