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http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nati...2_terror16.html

WASHINGTON — The State Department decided to stop publishing an annual report on international terrorism after the government's top terrorism center concluded that there were more terrorist attacks in 2004 than in any year since 1985, the first year the publication covered.

Several U.S. officials defended the decision, saying the methodology used by the National Counterterrorism Center to generate statistics had flaws, such as the inclusion of incidents that may not have been terrorism.

But other current and former officials charged that Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice's office ordered the report, "Patterns of Global Terrorism," eliminated weeks ago because the 2004 statistics raised disturbing questions about the Bush's administration's frequent claims of progress in the war against terrorism.

"Instead of dealing with the facts and dealing with them in an intelligent fashion, they try to hide their facts from the American public," charged Larry Johnson, a former CIA analyst and State Department terrorism expert who first disclosed the decision to eliminate the report in The Counterterrorism Blog, an online journal.

A senior State Department official, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue, confirmed that the publication was eliminated, but said the allegation that it was done for political reasons was "categorically untrue."

According to Johnson and U.S. intelligence officials, statistics that the National Counterterrorism Center provided to the State Department reported 625 "significant" terrorist attacks in 2004. That compared with 175 such incidents in 2003, the highest number in two decades.



Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:1970, old post ID:29159

Figures

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:1970, old post ID:29163

If one of the purposes of terrorism is to instill fear into people, then isn't a report listing all the terrorists accomplishments simply feeding into that fear? Why should our government be spreading the terrorist message for them?

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:1970, old post ID:29191

Bookworm wrote: If one of the purposes of terrorism is to instill fear into people, then isn't a report listing all the terrorists accomplishments simply feeding into that fear? Why should our government be spreading the terrorist message for them?

Numerical facts don't spread the terrorists' messages.

It seems hard to believe that the report was cancelled for any reason other than to save face; one of Bush's platforms was that he's tough on terrorism. Sure looks bad when the report says that there was more terrorism under his administration than any before...

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:1970, old post ID:29207

The report is on 'International Terrorism'. So you could possibly count all the events in Iraq, Philippines, Sudan, Lebanon, Israel, India, Pakistan, etc. It may be that events over the last few years have both created desperation amongst the currently established organizations because of all the heat, as well as made more fresh recruits and bold types forming their own little groups.

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:1970, old post ID:29260

Bookworm wrote: If one of the purposes of terrorism is to instill fear into people, then isn't a report listing all the terrorists accomplishments simply feeding into that fear? Why should our government be spreading the terrorist message for them?

So you would not be of the group that believes education, despite all of the evidence to the contrary, is a solution to many criminal activities?

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:1970, old post ID:29312

MrSelf wrote:

Bookworm wrote: If one of the purposes of terrorism is to instill fear into people, then isn't a report listing all the terrorists accomplishments simply feeding into that fear? Why should our government be spreading the terrorist message for them?

So you would not be of the group that believes education, despite all of the evidence to the contrary, is a solution to many criminal activities?

How does your question relate to my question? Are you saying that education = being able to read a report listing all the terrorist's accomplishments? How does reading that report provide a solution to many criminal activities?

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:1970, old post ID:29317

Bookworm wrote:

MrSelf wrote:

Bookworm wrote: If one of the purposes of terrorism is to instill fear into people, then isn't a report listing all the terrorists accomplishments simply feeding into that fear? Why should our government be spreading the terrorist message for them?

So you would not be of the group that believes education, despite all of the evidence to the contrary, is a solution to many criminal activities?

How does your question relate to my question? Are you saying that education = being able to read a report listing all the terrorist's accomplishments? How does reading that report provide a solution to many criminal activities?

It can raise awareness and hopefully inspire second thoughts in someone who might be considering such activities. It can also galvonize support for efforts to stamp it out. As you say, instilling terror is one purpose of terrorism, but it's not done without some greater goal to achieve through the spread of fear. I think the more people understand what those ultimate goals are, the more they'll want to resist and destroy terrorism.

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:1970, old post ID:29318

Stasi wrote: [It can raise awareness and hopefully inspire second thoughts in someone who might be considering such activities.  It can also galvonize support for efforts to stamp it out.  As you say, instilling terror is one purpose of terrorism, but it's not done without some greater goal to achieve through the spread of fear.  I think the more people understand what those ultimate goals are, the more they'll want to resist and destroy terrorism.

I don't think the possibility of being reported would inspire second thoughts in a terrorist. I think the opposite would be true. They would want their activity known. I do agree with getting people to understand the terrorist's ultimate goals, but I don't think the report that inspired this thread had anything to do with educating people about the terrorist's goals.

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:1970, old post ID:29321

Bookworm wrote:

Stasi wrote: [It can raise awareness and hopefully inspire second thoughts in someone who might be considering such activities.  It can also galvonize support for efforts to stamp it out.  As you say, instilling terror is one purpose of terrorism, but it's not done without some greater goal to achieve through the spread of fear.  I think the more people understand what those ultimate goals are, the more they'll want to resist and destroy terrorism.

I don't think the possibility of being reported would inspire second thoughts in a terrorist. I think the opposite would be true. They would want their activity known. I do agree with getting people to understand the terrorist's ultimate goals, but I don't think the report that inspired this thread had anything to do with educating people about the terrorist's goals.

What kind of moron thinks the possibily of being reported would inspire second thoughts in a terrorist? I was trying to say that knowing the prevalence of the activities and the lack of success they have could cause someone second thoughts.

Since when did terrorists need a US government report on terrorism statistics to find the will to carry out their actions? And does the report even only focus on recognized terrorist groups or the acts of rebel groups in unstable states as well?

Since when did Hamas or Hizbollah need US gov't terror stats to find the desire to carry out suicide missions in Israel? Since when did al-Qaida need a report to gain support and will for its actions around the world, let alone Iraq? Other groups like Abu Sayyef have been active for a years and don't need a US report on world terror stats for backbone. With few exceptions, terrorist acts are focused on specific localities and regions and have their own motivations and will-power.

If also included in the report are killings related to drug trafficking and the rebel groups in Latin America then how would a report affect any of that in their favor? Do the Chechens need the world to be scared in order for them to continue their rebellion?

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:1970, old post ID:29327

You've finally written something about which I can't find anything to argue. Awww.

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:1970, old post ID:29330

Bookworm wrote:

MrSelf wrote:

Bookworm wrote: If one of the purposes of terrorism is to instill fear into people, then isn't a report listing all the terrorists accomplishments simply feeding into that fear? Why should our government be spreading the terrorist message for them?

So you would not be of the group that believes education, despite all of the evidence to the contrary, is a solution to many criminal activities?

How does your question relate to my question? Are you saying that education = being able to read a report listing all the terrorist's accomplishments? How does reading that report provide a solution to many criminal activities?

You seem to indicate that informing the public, giving them all of the information on the subject, leads to a greater negative force than positive force in this case. Having all the most information allows the people of this republic the information to make the most informed decisions on what type of policy they would like their constituents to adopt. Keeping the public in the dark is the easiest way to abuse authority or power.

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:1970, old post ID:29372

MrSelf wrote: You seem to indicate that informing the public, giving them all of the information on the subject, leads to a greater negative force than positive force in this case.

I'm not convinced that this report gives "all the information on the subject" of terrorism. Weren't there some questions about whether some of the incidents in this report would have been counted as terrorism in previous reports? Was the report specific enough about the causes of terrorism to be useful in affecting policy decisions? I'm not sure that it was. On the other hand, it was a long report, so I am sure there was stuff in there that the Bush Administration really didn't need to suppress.

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:1970, old post ID:29384

Bingo, doing away with the report is not an appropriate answer if there is a problem with how the information is colligated. Of course the report doesn't give "all of the information on the subject", no one ever indicated it did, just that it adds to the overall picture of the subject, allowing for a more informed answer than without the information at all.

"Was the report specific enough about the causes of terrorism to be useful in affecting policy decisions?" - Certainly more so than no report at all, working on improving the method would seem to be the best direction to go, not doing away with the report.

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:1970, old post ID:29438

I had to look up the word colligate because I don't remember seeing it before. I always like having to learn a new word .

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:1970, old post ID:29446

I'd look it up, too. But it sounds like a boring word, a stuffy word, the kind that you'd use while talking to your boss....colligate....*shudder*

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:1970, old post ID:29458