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Bookworm wrote:

manadren wrote: They are the same god in that they trace their origins back to the same place, but the differences in the religions are so profound and incompatible,

That is exactly my point. The fact that they trace things back to some compatible point has no bearing on the present day, because presently the beliefs that they hold about God are so incompatible that they cannot be worshiping the same God,

Stasi wrote:

Bookworm wrote:

Stasi wrote: There is a man named Titus who lives in Rome.
A woman claims to have had a son by Titus, but it can not be proven such that no one can deny the evidence when it's presented.  There are two groups of Titus' servants - one that believes that Titus is the father and one that doesn't.  Despite their disagreement as to who the child's father is, when either group refers to serving Titus, they are referring to the same person.

But suppose Titus claimed the child even though there was no proof. One group of servants would believe that Titus was the father. The other group would be calling Titus a liar, and would be going around claiming to serve a childless Titus, even though a childless Titus did not exist.

Yet Titus the being does exist and it is this being that both groups serve. There are not multiple Titus-beings, just one, although there is disagreement on certain things.

What you're trying to argue is that while multiple people worship the same God, any deviation in belief between the groups means that among the different groups, there are multiple Gods. Liken this to reality. The fact is, people can have very different impressions of any single person, yet when they reference the individual, they are referencing the very same one. It's like a two-faced celebrity who may seem charming and wonderful in public, but may be a complete jerk in private. Amongst those people who are familiar perhaps only with one of either side, when they talk about the individual in question, it would be ludicrus to say that they're referencing different people, yet you, and others, do that with God. You assert that despite the fact that different groups explicitly worship the God of Abraham, the differences in their beliefs toward that God mean that they don't worship the same God. It doesn't make any sense to me.

0 wrote: Jesus was a Jew. As a matter of fact, the King of the Jews. Jews and Christians worship the same God. The Jews just thought Jesus was a fake.

0 wrote:

Bookworm wrote:

manadren wrote: They are the same god in that they trace their origins back to the same place, but the differences in the religions are so profound and incompatible,

That is exactly my point. The fact that they trace things back to some compatible point has no bearing on the present day, because presently the beliefs that they hold about God are so incompatible that they cannot be worshiping the same God,

They all trace back to the same God. Yes. The reason for the so called profound differences is mans input and ability to manipulate an interpret in his favor. Humans are flawed and they are the ones doing the interpretation. Good lord, these books were written by men, not Gods.
Then tell me, what's the difference between a Catholic, a Protestant, a Baptist or a Lutheran? Do they all worship the same God? If so, why not go to the same church? Please explain.

manadren wrote: that man created god, rather than god creating man?

0 wrote:

manadren wrote: that man created god, rather than god creating man?

I agree completely.

Red Squirrel wrote:

0 wrote:

manadren wrote: that man created god, rather than god creating man?

I agree completely.

That's like saying the egg created the chicken that just laid it. Does not make any sense.

Red Squirrel wrote: Some religions do worship the real God.  The problem is in the way they worship Him, and the fact that they don't really listen to him, by not following the Bible, adding/removing to the Bible, or making their own bible completely.  Geovahs are a good example of this.

Red Squirrel wrote:

0 wrote:

manadren wrote: that man created god, rather than god creating man?

I agree completely.

That's like saying the egg created the chicken that just laid it. Does not make any sense.

Stasi wrote: The Christian god does not appear everywhere in history.  If you really think so, you need to study some history.

manadren wrote: I don't feel like reading through the entire thread so pardon if this has been said before. But to the original topic of God helping people, I've always thought it more, as some would call it, the power of positive thinking, or as others would, the power of self-deception.

If you look hard enough you can see the good in the bad. If you try hard enough you can see patterns and connections where others don't, if you believe enough that god is helping you, then for all intents and purposes, he might as well be. But you are the one that's really making it all happen.

Not that any of this is a bad thing. In this age, in all ages of man, self-deception has been an essential part of life, an essential component of your physical and  psychological well-being. It's what allows us to wake up in the morning, allows us to get things done, allows us to keep moving. We decide to ignore certain facts and put emphasis on others, we build connections between unrelated things, we put our trust in things that don't have the ability to neither live up to expectations nor betray us.

Some call it mind over matter, some call it god, some call it the the fuzzy dice hanging from their mirror, some call it luck or fate, it's all the same. Whatever brings you order from the chaos.

Red Squirrel wrote: That point is useless though.  That can be said about anything, since if you read a history book about the invention of the light bulb , obviously God will probably not even be mentioned once, as it is not the focal point of that particular history era.

Shinizo wrote: I know I shouldn't concern myself in actually typing this, since it's somewhat personal/religious, but I feel like.. not directly talking to people about my problems. It makes me feel safer if you don't know me.


I get the feelings of being alone sometimes, after a few things happened in the past. Sometimes I used to feel like God had abandoned me in a place of perpetual darkness with no light at the end of the tunnel. Lots of attempted suicides in the past month, gone mentally insane for awhile. ..Then I started looking more to God, and I've been looking at the bright side to things. God would never abandon me, because even though I am just one person, I could be that one person to change the world for the better, y'know? Sometimes, life problems are better solved with the help of God. Even though He's invisible, or.. you can't feel him there, you can always know, that no matter where you go, He will always be walking beside you. And I believe, that through Him, I can do anything. He's stopped my thoughts of doing something.. dangerous, or brutal, or downright degrading to one's self-esteem, and to others. He's given me a more positive outlook towards life, and I've been making more friends ever since. I used to push people aside, judge them before knowing.. I just assumed they'd all be the same. But, now I see things in a different perspective.

I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.  Can you?

0 wrote:

Bookworm wrote:

manadren wrote: They are the same god in that they trace their origins back to the same place, but the differences in the religions are so profound and incompatible,

That is exactly my point. The fact that they trace things back to some compatible point has no bearing on the present day, because presently the beliefs that they hold about God are so incompatible that they cannot be worshiping the same God,

They all trace back to the same God. Yes. The reason for the so called profound differences is mans input and ability to manipulate an interpret in his favor. Humans are flawed and they are the ones doing the interpretation. Good lord, these books were written by men, not Gods.
Then tell me, what's the difference between a Catholic, a Protestant, a Baptist or a Lutheran? Do they all worship the same God? If so, why not go to the same church? Please explain.

Stasi wrote: Back when I was religious, I had some Baptists tell me that Mormons don't worship the same god as they do, despite the fact that both view Christ as God's son who died for the sins of mankind.  Many religious folks seem all too eager to create and perpetuate divisions with the interest in maintaining the delusion that they have a monopoly over truth.

Bookworm, I'll quote an exchange we had in the "Heavenly Thoughts" thread to re-state my position on this:

Stasi wrote:

Bookworm wrote:
But suppose Titus claimed the child even though there was no proof. One group of servants would believe that Titus was the father. The other group would be calling Titus a liar, and would be going around claiming to serve a childless Titus, even though a childless Titus did not exist.

Yet Titus the being does exist and it is this being that both groups serve. There are not multiple Titus-beings, just one, although there is disagreement on certain things.

What you're trying to argue is that while multiple people worship the same God, any deviation in belief between the groups means that among the different groups, there are multiple Gods. Liken this to reality. The fact is, people can have very different impressions of any single person, yet when they reference the individual, they are referencing the very same one. It's like a two-faced celebrity who may seem charming and wonderful in public, but may be a complete jerk in private. Amongst those people who are familiar perhaps only with one of either side, when they talk about the individual in question, it would be ludicrus to say that they're referencing different people, yet you, and others, do that with God. You assert that despite the fact that different groups explicitly worship the God of Abraham, the differences in their beliefs toward that God mean that they don't worship the same God. It doesn't make any sense to me.

0 wrote:

Bookworm wrote:

manadren wrote: They are the same god in that they trace their origins back to the same place, but the differences in the religions are so profound and incompatible,

That is exactly my point. The fact that they trace things back to some compatible point has no bearing on the present day, because presently the beliefs that they hold about God are so incompatible that they cannot be worshiping the same God,

They all trace back to the same God. Yes. The reason for the so called profound differences is mans input and ability to manipulate an interpret in his favor. Humans are flawed and they are the ones doing the interpretation. Good lord, these books were written by men, not Gods.
Then tell me, what's the difference between a Catholic, a Protestant, a Baptist or a Lutheran? Do they all worship the same God? If so, why not go to the same church? Please explain.