Freedom downtime

[Red Squirrel]

Yeah it would be interested to know how acurate the movie is. But I believe it's at least 90% acurate since I've heard other similar stories, I can't recall any specific ones, but I can remember one involving someone having code for counter strike, then the goverment made this big fuss and broke into his house to trash all his equipment and furniture while he was not even allowed in. that's right, he was thrown out of his house while they do this search then he was left off with nothing. It's not ok for robbers to do it, but it's ok for the FBI to do it.

I say the FBI sticks to fighting terrorism, since they are too paranoid when it comes to computers. I think this alone shows that their own security is very weak. They have their own reasons to put someone who can modify a cell phone in a high security prison. They actually fear the sight of someone who knows more then the average person, about technology.

Heck, isin't there a law that it's illegal to use encryption that the FBI is unable to crack? I know it's illegal in the states to talk about how encryption works, like showing algorthms and what not.

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[Anonymous]

F*ck the FBI... I say they stick to making series' like X-files

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[Stasi]

Heck, isin't there a law that it's illegal to use encryption that the FBI is unable to crack?  I know it's illegal in the states to talk about how encryption works, like showing algorthms and what not.

You should be careful about what you say you 'know' is illegal stateside. It's not illegal to talk about how encryption works. Also, no, it's not illegal to use encryption that the FBI is unable to crack.

Yeah it would be interested to know how acurate the movie is. But I believe it's at least 90% acurate since I've heard other similar stories, I can't recall any specific ones, but I can remember one involving someone having code for counter strike, then the goverment made this big fuss and broke into his house to trash all his equipment and furniture while he was not even allowed in. that's right, he was thrown out of his house while they do this search then he was left off with nothing. It's not ok for robbers to do it, but it's ok for the FBI to do it.

I think you're thinking about when the source code for Half-Life 2.... As for the guy(s)' place getting messed up during subsequent search of their living space, that can happen in any number of instances where a warrant is being served, depending on what is on the warrant to be searched for. To liken serving a warrant to a 'robber' as you mention is warped and plain silly. It's not uncommon for a resident to either be told to wait outside or be kept in a single location on the premises during a search.

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[Red Squirrel]

A warrent is different, but if they just barge in without any type of warning, that's just wrong. A very scary occurance for any kids that may be in the house, since unlike a robber they can't call the cops, since the FBI is higher then cops so they can do what they want illegal or not.

But we can't forget we can't really trust the US news media anymore, so maybe it's not done that bad. But most news reports/articles I've seen involving hackers, there's rarely a warrent.

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[Stasi]

But we can't forget we can't really trust the US news media anymore, so maybe it's not done that bad. But most news reports/articles I've seen involving hackers, there's rarely a warrent.

Please provide a source article about a police raid on a hacker that didn't involve a warrant. Whether it's the local beat cops or the FBI conducting the raid, if they barge in illegally without a warrant, they jeopardize the very case they're trying to get evidence for. Unless there is a dead body, any evidence they gather illegally can be thrown out in the ensuing court battle.

A warrent is different, but if they just barge in without any type of warning, that's just wrong. A very scary occurance for any kids that may be in the house, since unlike a robber they can't call the cops, since the FBI is higher then cops so they can do what they want illegal or not.

When a warrant is served, there usually is no warning. The police show up at your door, tell you that they have a warrant to search the premises, and then enter your location, whether you're expecting them or not. Lots of things in life scare kids, but such things are sometimes necessary to rectify a wrong, bring someone to justice, and serve the greater good.

While FBI do have higher access and jurisdiction on certain types of crimes, saying that they can do whatever they want, illegal or no, is unfair and ignorant. There are numerous laws regarding their conduct and court cases against the Bureau in which the plaintiff's won. Just because the FBI gets involved doesn't mean that at that point, all such proceeding are held in secret. There are still standards of probable cause and evidence that the FBI is held to lest they jeopardize their case.

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[Red Squirrel]

They had a warrent and all but still no reason to screw over a conference just because they're hackers...
http://www.textfiles.com/hacking/pumpcon.txt

I think there's a pattern with all these type of cases. US authorities do not like people who know as much, or more then them about communication equipment.

Funny part is, you can walk in a federal building with a gun, but not an autodialer. LOL an autodialer is so much more dangeraus then a gun.

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[OLKMED]

They had a warrent and all but still no reason to screw over a conference just because they're hackers...
http://www.textfiles.com/hacking/pumpcon.txt

I think there's a pattern with all these type of cases.  US authorities do not like people who know as much, or more then them about communication equipment. 

Funny part is, you can walk in a federal building with a gun, but not an autodialer. LOL  an autodialer is so much more dangeraus then a gun.

it doesn't go into the details about why there were arrested but cops aren't going to wait for somebody to get back from their little weekend getaway to arrest them it should be done as soon as possible.

and a some people in the US carry concealed weapons (i don't know why) with no intention of using them, but i don't think i've ever heard of somebody carrying an autodialer without the intention of using it.

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[Red Squirrel]

Yeah but as stated in the article they were not the bad type of hackers, they were probably just going to show how it works etc... but the goverment hates that anyway.

Here I could probably open up a traffic light post with a wrench in the middle of traffic and not look suspicious. LOL

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[OLKMED]

the article was also written by a guy who was there, of course he isn't going to write anything on the interenet that could let a finger get pointed at him. it didn't say they were the bad kind, but it didn't say they weren't either. them all getting together in a hotel room is kinda fishy too.

and of course the government hates people who know more than they do about computers. They rely on computers so much but they're changing so all the time, they have to keep on their toes and eliminate any threat that might come around.

and the guy who hacked into pentagon files and got arrested even though he didn't do anything?? HAHAHA
more like he didn't do anything YET

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[Red Squirrel]

What I find funny is when they say that when someone breaks in a PC and steals files, that it costs X milions of dollars of damage. I never realized doing a data transfer over the internet could actually damage equipment. I can understand that it's not cool having top secret stuff taken from you and it's completely illegal to tresspass goverment files, or corporate data for that matter, but it's another thing to go say that it costed millions in damage when the "taken" files are still there.

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[000]

Good lord RED, it seems that just about everything you say is an assumption. You seem to like to make up facts. Copying information off of hard drives is "no big deal"? Have you ever known someone who has had his or her identity stolen? I know 2 people and it is a living nightmare. Your credit is screwed and know one cares. Not even the credit card companies. These poor bastards can't even buy a used car.
People calling you for that you didn't spend.
You bet your ass I want all of them pricks locked up. Some prick with a pc can steal a hell of a lot more then some asshead with a gun. But hey, hacking is fun...right RED?

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[OLKMED]

it can cost them millions of dollars because the confidential files aren't confidentail anymore letting people lose millions of dollars that they would've made if those files had been kept confidential.

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[Stasi]

Funny part is, you can walk in a federal building with a gun, but not an autodialer. LOL  an autodialer is so much more dangeraus then a gun.

For your education:

From the Gun Control Act of 1968

Sec. 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities



(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.

(b ) Whoever, with intent that a firearm or other dangerous weapon be used in the commission of a crime, knowingly possesses or causes to be present such firearm or dangerous weapon in a Federal facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.

c ) A person who kills or attempts to kill any person in the course of a violation of subsection (a) or (b ), or in the course of an attack on a Federal facility involving the use of a firearm or other dangerous weapon, shall be punished as provided in sections 1111, 1112, and 1113.

(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to:

(1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;

(2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law;or

(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

(e) (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm in a Federal court facility, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply to conduct which is described in paragraph(1) or (2) of subsection (d).

(f) Nothing in this section limits the power of a court of the United States to punish for contempt or to promulgate rules or orders regulating, restricting, or prohibiting the possession of weapons within any building housing such court or any of its proceedings, or upon any grounds appurtenant to such building.

(g) As used in this section:

(1) The term "Federal facility" means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.

(2) The term "dangerous weapon" means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 2 1/2 inches in length.

(3) The term "Federal court facility" means the courtroom, judges' chambers, witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney conference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices of the court clerks, the United States attorney, and the United States marshal, probation and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of any court of the United States.

(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b ) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection(a) or (e), as the case may be.

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[Stasi]

Funny part is, you can walk in a federal building with a gun, but not an autodialer. LOL  an autodialer is so much more dangeraus then a gun.

Actually, I can't find any such restriction on carrying an autodialer into a federal facility. Can you?

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[000]

Funny part is, you can walk in a federal building with a gun, but not an autodialer. LOL  an autodialer is so much more dangeraus then a gun.

Actually, I can't find any such restriction on carrying an autodialer into a federal facility. Can you?

Like I said, RED is making his facts up.
It's all one big assumption. I think he gets most of his facts about America from bad TV shows.

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[Bookworm]

I work for the Post Office, and I am not even allowed to have a gun in my vehicle in the postal service parking lot.

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[Red Squirrel]

Good lord RED, it seems that just about everything you say is an assumption. You seem to like to make up facts. Copying information off of hard drives is "no big deal"? Have you ever known someone who has had his or her identity stolen? I know 2 people and it is a living nightmare. Your credit is screwed and know one cares. Not even the credit card companies. These poor bastards can't even buy a used car.
People calling you for that you didn't spend.
You bet your ass I want all of them pricks locked up. Some prick with a pc can steal a hell of a lot more then some asshead with a gun. But hey, hacking is fun...right RED?

I think they should be locked up too, I just think it's rediculous that it's considered worse then any other crime like murder, child molesting, etc. No need for high security cell for someone who knows how to modify a cell phone. Am I the only one who notices this? Murder and other crimes you get a trial, and have a good chance of being let off easy. *caugh* Saddam, Bin Laden.

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[Cicero]

I think they should be locked up too, I just think it's rediculous that it's considered worse then any other crime like murder, child molesting, etc.  No need for high security cell for someone who knows how to modify a cell phone.   Am I the only one who notices this?  Murder and other crimes you get a trial, and have a good chance of being let off easy.    *caugh* Saddam, Bin Laden.

Who considers hacking worse than kiddy fiddling?

Saddam hasnt been sentenced yet and will go to prison if not executed. You have to find bin laden before you can try him.

If you kill someone you dont stand a "high chance" of being let off. You stand a high chance of going to prison. Some people get early parolle but they do go to prison.

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[000]

I think they should be locked up too, I just think it's rediculous that it's considered worse then any other crime like murder, child molesting, etc.  No need for high security cell for someone who knows how to modify a cell phone.   Am I the only one who notices this?  Murder and other crimes you get a trial, and have a good chance of being let off easy.    *caugh* Saddam, Bin Laden.

Who said that it's "considered worse then any other crime like murder, child molesting"?
That statment is just retarded. That's your assumption RED. Can you quote someone or something that states that?

And this one: "Murder and other crimes you get a trial, and have a good chance of being let off easy. *caugh* Saddam, Bin Laden."
RED, I have know idea what you are thinking here. Read the flicking papers RED. Yea Saddam is getting off easy. You're retared. The trial hasen't started yet. And Bin Laden is currently being hunted like a dog.

It must be the Canadian news because you seem to be the most mis-informed person on the planet.

Come on RED, make up some more facts.

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[fragged one]

once again, red proves himself ignorant.

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[Red Squirrel]

Wow did not want this to turn into an argument. I just figured I would not be the only one who thinks it's stupid that murderers, child molestors etc have more rights then hackers, who dont hurt anyone physically/mentaly.

Money does not count. For a corporation loosing 10 billion dollars, like they say it costs (which is BS) is like loosinga 10 dollar bill for a typical middle class person.

Some guy stole from my house. The cops got involved and did what they could. Now if this were in the US, and this guy would of been "stealing" my wifi signal, he'd be in jail, and yet he did not even go in my house. know what I'm say'n? Or better yet, you get a guy like OJ simpson, they just drag the case forever, while a hacker, they just throw him straight in jail and can't even use an electronic toilet because aparently a hacker can take over the world with one.

But all this just says one thing, that the goverment actually has crappy technologal security, so they phear anyone who knows as much or more then them about security. I'd probably be in jail myself if I was in the states... you don't see people in Canada freaking out at the sight of an auto dialer or a modified glossettes box.

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[Cicero]

Or better yet, you get a guy like OJ simpson, they just drag the case forever, while a hacker, they just throw him straight in jail and can't even use an electronic toilet because aparently a hacker can take over the world with one.

Or maybe OJ had a case and a half decent lawyer, while the hacker didnt have a leg to stand on when the prosecution pull a whole heap of evidence out of their ass.

And electronic toilet? whats that?

EDIT: Debates and heated discussion anyone?

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[Red Squirrel]

Yeah that's the thing if you have a good laywer (which most killers do since they make more money then hackers) you're good, if you don't, you're screwed, no matter what the crime is. That's the justice system for ya. Not really only the US but probably pretty much anywhere.

In one of the hacker articles I posted it talked about one not being allowed to use an electronic toilet. Never heard of that myself, I'm guessing there's lot of buttons to perform a self test, self flush, configure the auto flush sensitivity, and besides all that, TAKE OVER THE WORLD!!!! MUHAHAHAHA!

Imagine getting a prank call and on your call display you see "Prison stall No.394"

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[Anonymous]

Stop fighting! STOP IT! >_< Lets all get together and make love instead

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[Red Squirrel]

*puts away autodialer*

Ok ok, I won't destroy the world. Let's all have a group hug! :boldblue:

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