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Stasi wrote: Again, laws exist to deter or allow the society to penalize those who break them.  I can guarantee you that there are people who drive 50mph in 25mph zones.

Of course there is a real risk to driving 50 in a 25, one that can't really be eliminated without putting 10 walls around all roads and only letting 1 person drive on them at a time. With prostitution however, again if properly regulated legal prostitution would nearly eliminate the risk involved, and I say legal, as I'm assuming an unliscensed hoe walking the streets would still be illegal.

But now we're back to that victimless crime issue again. You call prostitution undigified and self-demeaning, but have you ever considered that some prostitutes may not view it that way? Sure there are those who, because of circumstances beyond thier control, were forced into prostitution, or felt as so. But it's rather of you to say that the profession is self-demeaning without considering that there may be those who don't feel demeaned in any way. And that it is undignified is a view that may not be shared by a majority. You say that laws exist to deter and punish immorality, but it's rather arrogant of you to assume that your definition of immorality is universal. Rather arrogant of anyone actually. That is why moral issues shouldn't be taken lightly, so quickly assumed and accepted, without taking into consideration differing points of view. However in cases like this, the stigma a certain morality puts on such things stops a lot of people from speaking honestly about the issue in a public forum.

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manadren wrote: Of course there is a real risk to driving 50 in a 25, one that can't really be eliminated without putting 10 walls around all roads and only letting 1 person drive on them at a time. With prostitution however, again if properly regulated legal prostitution would nearly eliminate the risk involved, and I say legal, as I'm assuming an unliscensed hoe walking the streets would still be illegal.

Mmmmhmmmm. My statement was an attack on the general argument of allowing something just because it'll be done regardless.

manadren wrote: But now we're back to that victimless crime issue again. You call prostitution undigified and self-demeaning, but have you ever considered that some prostitutes may not view it that way? Sure there are those who, because of circumstances beyond thier control,  were forced into prostitution, or felt as so. But it's rather of you to say that the profession is self-demeaning without considering that there may be those who don't feel demeaned in any way. And that it is undignified is a view that may not be shared by a majority. You say that laws exist to deter and punish immorality, but it's rather arrogant of you to assume that your definition of immorality is universal. Rather arrogant of anyone actually. That is why moral issues shouldn't be taken lightly, so quickly assumed and accepted, without taking into consideration differing points of view.

I know some prostitutes don't view what they do as demeaning and undignified, but thanks for making sure I know people think differently than me since I've been living in a cave my entire life. Some people think certain fashions are cool that I don't. Some people like music that I don't. Are you saying that people don't share my opinions on certain things and that should keep me from voicing mine, or be careful to censor it, or sit on the fence and not have an opinion because others will have differing ones? Like you said, different people have different morals and opinions, etc. So what's your point?

You're absolutely right. It is arrogant for a person to assume their definition of morality is universal. So please tell me when did I imply mine was?

That is why moral issues shouldn't be taken lightly, so quickly assumed and accepted, without taking into consideration differing points of view.  However in cases like this, the stigma a certain morality puts on such things stops a lot of people from speaking honestly about the issue in a public forum.

Okay. Am I supposed to speak honestly about this issue, or am I supposed to censor my opinions on things just to avoid having enlightened mind readers make posts full of faulty assumptions?

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I always wondered how hookers are still around. Honestly, i can't see how they would protect themselves if say a guy took them to his "house" and just kidnapped her. No one would miss her and i couldn't see the guy having too much trouble with a woman addicted to crack that weighs about 100 pounds. I know people do this, but , why not more!

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Stasi wrote: Am I supposed to speak honestly about this issue, or am I supposed to censor my opinions on things just to avoid having enlightened mind readers make posts full of faulty assumptions?

oi, that did come off kinda bad, didn't it. Well Me saying that I don't like your opinion isn't the same as saying you don't have the right to voice it. The point of that poorly constructed spiel, was that even though laws to legislate morality, it is not an airtight argument as morility is a relative thing. Thus turning morals into laws is far from a simple act, or at least it should be.

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manadren wrote: oi, that did come off kinda bad, didn't it. Well Me saying that I don't like your opinion isn't the same as saying you don't have the right to voice it. The point of that poorly constructed spiel,  was that even though laws to legislate morality, it is not an airtight argument as morility is a relative thing. Thus turning morals into laws is far from a simple act, or at least it should be.

And I hope I wasn't too ... well... assholish. I gotta admit I've got a bitter edge lately that's tempting me to give the forums a rest for a while.

Anyway, I understand your point, which is why I support legalization by the decision of each given locality. I understand people don't have the same opinion of it that I do. And I understand that it is an infinitely more complex issue than simply saying it's wrong or ok as there is such an array of reasons why people go into the business. I've gotten along well with people in the sex business... not prostitution, as I've never know a prostitute, but a couple of people from high school who strip now, which I have a similar opinion of as a profession. At the end of the day, the stripper or hooker is still a human being and at least deserves the standards that a regulated legalization would encourage. And if I had to choose between risky, illicit sex for money and regulated, STD tested sex for money, well, that's no choice at all because society is ultimately served better by the latter. All the same, realizing that different localities may have different magnitudes of prostitution, or problematic prostitution (i.e. hich rate of crackwhore types), and very different value systems, each locality should have the right to approach is differently. Hell, thinking about it, I wouldn't mind if it were legalized nationwide as long as each local government, whether on a city, county, or state level would regulate it well. Anyway, I hope this makes sense because I just woke up and am kind of retarded during that first hour.

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A lot of interesting debate.

Let me pose this; isn't the real problem from what you are saying about prostitution lie within the person, not the act of prostitution? Banning prostituion doesn't fix the problem, or even address it. It seems we forget to address the problem so often in society, but rather assume a reaction of the problem is the problem. Post hoc, ergo propter hoc. I will agree with this, and I believe this is one of the things that influences your thoughts on the subject greatly, there is a lot of abuse of women in prostitution (interestingly more so female prostitutes, even though there is a large male prostitute group) and that is a sad thing to witness. A lot of both physical and mental abuse, but eventually you have to stand up for yourself. The whole system seems to be slightly dirty, and that hurts everyone involved much more than the acts themselves.


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I want to be a pimp when I grow up.

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fragged one wrote: there isn't any victim here.  personally, i think imposing your morals on other people is a crime in itself.

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