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halvertroy wrote: i said i'm not a practicing gay.

I love these kind of quotes.....

Talking religion again hu? Might as well be talking about how good dirt tastes.
Swallow that. Not 1 religion is 100% correct. But they all might be headed in the right direction. Well get there some day. It will evolve.

I am a child of the universe..........

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Stasi wrote: So you believe that their opinion will lead them to damnation, right?  If it is true that their opinion will lead to their damnation, then their opinion is inferior, regardless what they think of it themselves.  And while you may not feel that you are better than those people, your being saved makes you better than them.  That isn't to say that you should be arrogant about it, but don't be condescending and say that the Saved are no better than the damned.

We are no better than the damned. We are pretty much exactly the same, but you are right that their opinion is inferior to ours, but you have it wrong.

The reason it's inferior to use is because it's different from what we have faith and truly believe in, but it doesn't mean we look down on them and it makes them, as a person, inferior. It means their opinion and the knowledge they've let us have about their own personal beliefs is inferior to our own, because we choose to believe what we grew up with, found through others, or found by ourselves over what they're saying. In other words, we look down on their beliefs, so to say. However, "looking down" is a poor choice of words.

(I'm not one to force my religion on someone, because I feel like God just wants people to know about His Word, not have it shoved down their throats. I guess that's why we have free will, eh?)

Just as some unsaved people I have encountered think low of my opinions on Christ, does that make my opinions inferior to them? Yes it does. Does it make me inferior to them? I'd certainly hope not, but that's totally up to them. I mean ultimately, no one really doesn't "believe in God", everyone believes in God. They just choose whether or not to acknowledge His existence and accept Him. Again, matter of opinion and what one choses to believe.

Whether people are unsaved or not doesn't make them any different than me, you or anyone else. It just makes our opinions a bit different.

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I guess my point is more specifically that the "saved" are favored above the "unsaved" - not necessarily "better" in the arrogant sense. But in any case, you've got a group of people who are going to eternal joy, and a group of people going to eternal despair. And it doesn't seem to matter to a lot of people how big of a scumbag the "unsaved" person might be, they all go to the same hell. That suggests to me that God must really despise those who don't accept Christ as the Savior, to inflict such unending torment on them, regardless of their other qualities.

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Stasi wrote: I guess my point is more specifically that the "saved" are favored above the "unsaved" - not necessarily "better" in the arrogant sense.  But in any case, you've got a group of people who are going to eternal joy, and a group of people going to eternal despair.  And it doesn't seem to matter to a lot of people how big of a scumbag the "unsaved" person might be, they all go to the same hell.  That suggests to me that God must really despise those who don't accept Christ as the Savior, to inflict such unending torment on them, regardless of their other qualities.

Well, I'm gonna throw this into a different perspective.

Say you were the leader of the business and half the people believed in you. Set a same amount of wages for the everyone at the beginning. Of course the people who believe in you as a leader of the company will work hard and diligently for you. The ones who don't might not try as hard and won't listen too well, but they work for you, so they'll just get along with you for the time until something better comes along.

Ultimately the ones who believe in you as a leader of the company work hard and thus get rewarded for their hard work with promotions/raises and whatnot. The ones who don't believe in you probably won't work as hard or diligently to obtain thesr things and could abandon you in the workforce whenever they see fit, thus getting fired or sitting in the same place at all times.

My explination is kind of rugged, but that's the point I see it in.

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The problem I have with your explanation is that not everyone is born into the world in equal circumstances. Furthermore, though I wouldn't be under any obligation to promote, or even retain the services of those who didn't work hard, I wouldn't punish them by casting them into a horrible situation for the rest of their lives.

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Stasi wrote: The problem I have with your explanation is that not everyone is born into the world in equal circumstances.  Furthermore, though I wouldn't be under any obligation to promote, or even retain the services of those who didn't work hard, I wouldn't punish them by casting them into a horrible situation for the rest of their lives.

Well, it's hard to compare something temporary to something permanent. I guess you could compare it that knowing after you, let's say, fired them or cast them out of your work force, you know not to hire them again, because you gave them a chance, and opened yourself to them, as head of a company, to work for you and help you achieve the things you wanted to do as a company.

Why would you let something back in that puts you into danger?

Of course that's a temporary solution, because people can change, drastically. However, let's just say life is like working in an office and having faith in the Leader. He doesn't fire us, He gives us way more than one chance when we make a mistake. Benevolent, yet rules with an iron fist. So to say. And at the end, He fires the ones who haven't remained loyal to the company as this company draws to an "end".

It's not like He's forcing us to follow him, in fact most people who're not christian know the outcomes of not being one. I mean He'd like for us to all work together and make advances in His "company", but that just doesn't happen.



Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:2505, old post ID:61131

Why would you let something back in that puts you into danger?

So God, the immortal, all-powerful, and all-knowing being that controls the universe is put in danger by human moral frailties?

It's not like He's forcing us to follow him, in fact most people who're not christian know the outcomes of not being one. I mean He'd like for us to all work together and make advances in His "company", but that just doesn't happen.

Hmmm, I disagree. People are coerced into following him, lest they suffer eternal torment. For someone who believes at least in the hell they'll be sent to if don't get "saved", it's really no choice at all. But for someone like myself, who sees no reason to believe in God, Heaven, or Hell, obviously it's not going to do much for me either way. Sure, I'd love to believe that ultimate justice will be meted out and that eternal joy can be mine if I fulfill some conditions, but to me, that just seems like wishful thinking.

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:2505, old post ID:61132

It's not so much Him that's put in danger, that's why the company ideology wasn't the exact way I wanted to put it, but the easiest way to explain it with what I know. It's more so to keep us safe in the new world He has planned for us in the afterlife.


Well, I don't see how people are coerced into following him if they know what might/will happen to them in their mind. Explain.


Edit: I have a friend who's somewhat like you, except he's scared me to some points with what may or may not happen to us to the point I couldn't sleep, because I was thinking so deeply into it. And it was so much at once. I still have trouble now about it, I wake up terrified and can't go back to bed because of it. lol

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Shinizo wrote: Well, I don't see how people are coerced into following him if they know what might/will happen to them in their mind. Explain.

It's really not a moral choice, or a meaningful choice when the options are eternal damnation/suffering and eternal joy. You're basically telling someone that they can either believe as you do or go to a horrible place where they will suffer immeasurably for eternity.

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meh, faith only causes death and unanswered prayers.

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goalguarder12 wrote: meh, faith only causes death and unanswered prayers.

You're ignorant if you think the only "faith" people have is religous.

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Gonna explain a bit of something.


There's both a Trinity of God and one of man.

God is:

Father
Son
Holy Spirit


Man is:

Body
Soul
Spirit
__________________


Body is the physical part of what we are, basically.
Soul is the immortal part of us that lives on after our mortality gives away.
Spirit is the part of us that is connected with God.

Now, in the beginning there were two people, right? We all know this. Adam and Eve. When they sinned their spirit died. and if spirit dies, we are no longer in fellowship with God. God created us "in His image", however when Adam and Eve sinned, we were no longer of His image. Since they sinned, all people are born spiritually dead.

So in order to be spiritually alive, we have to be "born again."

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So if all people are born "spiritually dead", if a baby dies, does it go to hell?

Also, if Jesus and God are the same being, why did Christ ask the Father why he'd be forsaken, while he was on the cross?

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if a baby dies it goes to heaven because its not old enough to understand what sinning is.

and the trinity is one being in 3 forms. and jesus asked god why he had forsaken him because god could not look at sin, and jesus was carrying the sin of the world on his shoulders while he was being hung on the cross. thats why he was sent here. and he knew it was going to happen. and even though he was part of god he was still a human being.

Archived topic from Anythingforums, old topic ID:2505, old post ID:61243

*sigh* i go to a catholic school. i've begun to hate christianity and catholicism.
it just doesnt make much sense to me anymore. it seems like it could've all been made up like santa clause. Just there to keep kids from being naughty. except it was made by some old people a long time ago to stop everybody from being naughty.
I'd say i'm closer to Jewish than any other recognized religion. But i'm pretty much agnostic. i believe in god, but i dont think i need to go to church or any of that crap to worship him. and i think as long as you're a good person and love other people, then you're good in his eyes.

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goalguarder12 wrote: *sigh* i go to a catholic school. i've begun to hate christianity and catholicism.
it just doesnt make much sense to me anymore. it seems like it could've all been made up like santa clause. Just there to keep kids from being naughty. except it was made by some old people a long time ago to stop everybody from being naughty.
I'd say i'm closer to Jewish than any other recognized religion. But i'm pretty much agnostic. i believe in god, but i dont think i need to go to church or any of that crap to worship him. and i think as long as you're a good person and love other people, then you're good in his eyes.

I believe deist is the word you're looking for. It implies a belief in God without the adherence to any particular religion. It also applies to those who adhere to the watchmaker concept (God created the universe and set it in motion, but does not intervene), but not always.

I called myself deist back in high school - actually I flipped between agnostic and deist, eventually settling on agnostic. But a few months back I made the jump to atheist. Not so much because I believe that God does not exist, but because I believe that religion and religious belief in general are unnecessary, and potentially harmful.

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I'm a Christian. And why because I feel that evolution makes no sense and that some other religions just have a wrong way of doing things. This is my opinion not to offend anyone. If you really want to know more on why you can go ahead and ask me.

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manadren wrote: I believe deist is the word you're looking for. It implies a belief in God without the adherence to any particular religion. It also applies to those who adhere to the watchmaker concept (God created the universe and set it in motion, but does not intervene), but not always.

I called myself deist back in high school - actually I flipped between agnostic and deist, eventually settling on agnostic. But a few months back I made the jump to atheist. Not so much because I believe that God does not exist, but because I believe that religion and religious belief in general are unnecessary, and potentially harmful.

umm....what's the difference between deist and agnostic?
and i'm not sure whether i believe that god created the universe or not. But i'm leaning towards not.

Pylfer, what part of evolution doesn't make sense to you?

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goalguarder12 wrote: umm....what's the difference between deist and agnostic?
and i'm not sure whether i believe that god created the universe or not. But i'm leaning towards not.

As I said before Deists believe that god exists, but don't necessarily believe in the Judeo-Christian God or subscribe to any particular religion. Agnostics on the other hand are those who believe that it is impossible to really know if god exists.



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goalguarder12 wrote: *sigh* i go to a catholic school. i've begun to hate christianity and catholicism.

And how do you justify this hate?

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goalguarder12 wrote: umm....what's the difference between deist and agnostic?

You'll study the Enlightenment sometime. I hope. . .

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Reaper wrote:

goalguarder12 wrote: *sigh* i go to a catholic school. i've begun to hate christianity and catholicism.

And how do you justify this hate?

from A) 3 years of forced religion classes
and the extremist way of thinking that many catholics have of "if you're not catholic, you're a terrible person and should burn in hell, or convert." i've been to a Jewish Synogogue, and i think the jewish religion is much more open-minded and accepting of other people. It's not a part of the jewish teachings to "spread the word" and try to convert people. They have a wonderful community that's like a large family within their synogogue.
From christianity, all i've seen is crazy people trying to tell me i have to believe a certain thing or i'll die. and i see people who don't give a crap about the religion at all, but they're looked at as saved. just because they had blessed water put over their head when they were a baby?
The jewish religion requires HARD work. lots and lots of it. my friend is jewish and he has to complete 200 service hours a year, on top of the 20 service hours my school requires. He has to go to a second, 4-5 hour school session every sunday morning to learn about the jewish religion and to learn to speak and read hebrew. He's had to dedicate a significant portion of his life to the religion, and to me that shows real faith.
Christianity is just too easy. It's like the easy way out. Go to church on easter and then you go to heaven? That just seems too wrong.
This year, i have to take "Church History." we've been learning about the beginnings of christianity. We learned that after Jesus died, non-jews (gentiles) wanted to be christian. But they didn't want to follow the Jewish laws. They thought the jewish laws were too strict. So finally the Council of Jerusalem decided that gentiles can convert to christianity without having to follow the many jewish laws.
basically, christians in that time were lazy jews. instead of actually working hard and giving up part of their lives to devote themselves to god, they took the easy way out.

That's why i dont like Christianity. I've just seen too much bad. And yes, you can argue that there's a lot of good too. Take Mother Theresa for example. Okay, Mother Theresa is one person who made a HUGE difference. Other religions such as Judaism may not emphasize personal response to charity, but as a whole, they help a lot. We recognize Christianity as being a religion that gives a lot back to the world. But that's only because they're the most noticable. Other religions do the same, but they don't showboat. they don't tell everybody about it. they dont gloat. because they arent doing it to convert people or to make their religion popular. They do it because they KNOW it's the right thing to do. Whether it has to do with God or not, it's the right thing to do.

I'd type more...but i feel like i'm rambling on...and it's 30 minutes past my bedtime >.<

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goalguarder12 wrote: umm....what's the difference between deist and agnostic?
and i'm not sure whether i believe that god created the universe or not. But i'm leaning towards not.

Dictionaries, my friend. Dictionaries.

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GG said:

i've been to a Jewish Synogogue, and i think the jewish religion is much more open-minded and accepting of other people. It's not a part of the jewish teachings to "spread the word" and try to convert people. They have a wonderful community that's like a large family within their synogogue.

Outsiders often percieve belief systems inaccurately. Judaism is an exclusive religion. In other words, like all other Abrahamic religions (i.e. Christianity and Islam), they believe theirs is the only true religion. As for going out to "spread the word", is that a bad thing?

From christianity, all i've seen is crazy people trying to tell me i have to believe a certain thing or i'll die. and i see people who don't give a crap about the religion at all, but they're looked at as saved. just because they had blessed water put over their head when they were a baby?

Do you really think that if any sect of Christianity were true that people who claim to be "saved" but act like dickwads would be appreciated by a being who is wholly benevolent, good, and just?

The jewish religion requires HARD work. lots and lots of it. my friend is jewish and he has to complete 200 service hours a year, on top of the 20 service hours my school requires. He has to go to a second, 4-5 hour school session every sunday morning to learn about the jewish religion and to learn to speak and read hebrew. He's had to dedicate a significant portion of his life to the religion, and to me that shows real faith.

Faith, or a brainwashed devotion to meaningless rituals and "forced" good deeds?

This year, i have to take "Church History." we've been learning about the beginnings of christianity. We learned that after Jesus died, non-jews (gentiles) wanted to be christian. But they didn't want to follow the Jewish laws. They thought the jewish laws were too strict. So finally the Council of Jerusalem decided that gentiles can convert to christianity without having to follow the many jewish laws.
basically, christians in that time were lazy jews. instead of actually working hard and giving up part of their lives to devote themselves to god, they took the easy way out.

Why should people who convert to Christianity be forced to follow Jewish laws? How is being permitted to live life free of the laws observed by a religion you don't believe in lazy?

That's why i dont like Christianity. I've just seen too much bad. And yes, you can argue that there's a lot of good too. Take Mother Theresa for example. Okay, Mother Theresa is one person who made a HUGE difference. Other religions such as Judaism may not emphasize personal response to charity, but as a whole, they help a lot. We recognize Christianity as being a religion that gives a lot back to the world. But that's only because they're the most noticable. Other religions do the same, but they don't showboat. they don't tell everybody about it. they dont gloat. because they arent doing it to convert people or to make their religion popular. They do it because they KNOW it's the right thing to do. Whether it has to do with God or not, it's the right thing to do.

And you think all or most Christians are false? Weren't you the one railing against prejudism not too long ago? You see one side of one sect of Christianity and you think you know what the whole of Christianity is like? You think the face of Christianity is the Pope, televangelists, or some hypocrite next door? That's pretty myopic.

It doesn't take religious ideology to be harmful or helpful. Good people exist who aren't religious. And horrible people exist who commit crimes, fight wars, and cause great suffering, not to spread their religious beliefs, but to spread or support some secular ideology.

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well after jesus was sacrificed for our sins some of those laws dont apply anymore. like we dont have to sacrifice animals anymore because jesus was the ultimate sacrifice. and some of the laws they were given they made even more strict than they had been. like theres a verse in the bible that said they couldnt cook a kid in its mothers milk and so they wont eat any dairy products with meat products in the same meal. it just told them not to cook the animal in the mothers milk. and the whole not working on the sabbath day. my dad went to isreal and they wont even let you press an elevator button on the sabbath. the elevator stops at all the floors so you dont have to pick one.

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