Change to the Paracelsus Champion Spawn?

[Death]

Players of AOV:

There have been a lot of requests and concerns in relation to the Paracelsus champion spawn and the abilties of ore elementals which conflict with the ability to do the champion spawn. Therefore it has been decided to run a poll to see how many are in favor of changing the type of elementals in the champion spawn to make it more balanced throughout and less of a frustration on lower levels.

For those who are unfamiliar with the champion spawn, a brief description is provided here:
http://www.uovalor.com/contentdb/index.php?sect=17

The current champ spawn is as follows:
First Tier: Earth Elementals and Air Elementals
Second Tier: Copper/Dull Copper/Shadow Iron Elementals
Third Tier: Bronze/Gold/Agapite Elementals, Fire and Snow Elementals
Fourth Tier: Verite/Valorite Elementals, Poison and Blood Elementals

This is the proposed change:

First Tier: Earth Elementals and Air Elementals
Second Tier: Fire Elementals and Water Elementals
Third Tier: Ice Elementals and Snow Elementals
Fourth Tier: Poison Elementals and Blood Elementals

Please answer the poll after giving considerable thought to the changes. If you don't agree to the changes, then you can either select to keep it as is, or you can suggest a different spawn breakdown.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:4970, old post ID:32058

[DOCTOR THUNDER]

I think it is only a few types of the elementals that are causing the problem. Namely the ones that reflect damage, whether its physical or magic damage.

there might be a problem if people count on the ore that is dropped from the elementals. If they even drop ore... not sure if they do. But if someone had plans of using that champ to get a decent amount of gold or valorite, then I could see them justly getting upset if it is changed. I don't think anyone really cares about the copper, unless its for a bod.

I havent gotten any farther than 2nd tier on the champ, so I am not sure what other elementals reflect damage. And i am too lazy to look it up.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:4970, old post ID:32060

[Death]

I think it is only a few types of the elementals that are causing the problem. Namely the ones that reflect damage, whether its physical or magic damage.

there might be a problem if people count on the ore that is dropped from the elementals. If they even drop ore... not sure if they do. But if someone had plans of using that champ to get a decent amount of gold or valorite, then I could see them justly getting upset if it is changed. I don't think anyone really cares about the copper, unless its for a bod.

I havent gotten any farther than 2nd tier on the champ, so I am not sure what other elementals reflect damage. And i am too lazy to look it up.

Ore drops for elementals are linked through the gargoyle pick axe to drop a larger amount. Killing a free spawning version (one that was not summoned through a pickaxe), will yield only 2 colored ore instead of 25.

It is possible that somebody could be trying to get the ore but it would take a long time and would be a lot more dangerous.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:4970, old post ID:32061

[DOCTOR THUNDER]

oh ok, so yeah it shouldnt make much of a difference

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:4970, old post ID:32087

[ggkthx]

I really like that it's a pain in the butt frankly, but also easy (enough) to overcome if you adapt to the situation instead of wanting the situation to adapt to you.

When we last did it, which might be like a year ago by now, it was one of the most fun times I've had in UO practically ever. And even though there were random deaths I don't think it was a particularly difficult spawn to do at all.

Making it like every other boring spawn, basically, would really suck.

Edit: Also screw the results of this poll, if someone had a poll asking if people should get free stuff I'm sure it would get a lot of Yes answers too, but popularity doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

You know what spawn does suck? Lord Oaks sucks. Just sayin.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:4970, old post ID:32092

[Anonymous]

you see the thing is that their is not enough people that play uovalor to do hard spawns so vote for change!

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:4970, old post ID:32097

[ggkthx]

Is there 4 people?
Cuz we did it with 4 people.

Changing spawns, especially that one, to be soloable or done with 2 people would be ridiculous.

There ARE soloable spawns, they don't all need to be soloable. Or everything might as well be. (Tons of stuff is already, but at least then there's a variety of things you can do by yourself if you want.)

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:4970, old post ID:32098

[DOCTOR THUNDER]

I dont think you are understanding the problem. Yeah, the elemental spawn is tough and always was tougher than some of the other ones.

The problem is that when elementals were changed, the coppers were made to reflect spell damage. That goes way over the line, making that tier of the champ impossible unless there in an insane amount of people, all with deathblades, and all using non spellcasting to kill the spawn. As d said, having to use those types of tactics signals that something is wrong and incorrect.

Its simple, challenge is good. Making something so difficult that it is impossible, that is bad.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:4970, old post ID:32102

[Anonymous]

I dont think you are understanding the problem. Yeah, the elemental spawn is tough and always was tougher than some of the other ones.

The problem is that when elementals were changed, the coppers were made to reflect spell damage. That goes way over the line, making that tier of the champ impossible unless there in an insane amount of people, all with deathblades, and all using non spellcasting to kill the spawn. As d said, having to use those types of tactics signals that something is wrong and incorrect.

Its simple, challenge is good. Making something so difficult that it is impossible, that is bad.

THIS

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:4970, old post ID:32104

[Death]

Going to have to agree with both people here. The reflect was not intended to affect the champ spawn in such a negative way as to make it problematic. Therefore, a change is necessary in this case.

On the other side, the champ should still provide a large enough challenge, which I believe will still be apparent with the ice and snow elementals and their aura attacks which will cause fizzling on tier three and require a bit more strategy than a simple "run in and wither".

The majority vote will determine what action the devs take on this champion spawn. The idea is to make it challenging but not ridiculous.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:4970, old post ID:32110

[Anonymous]

we have got 7 people wanting the change and 2 that dont kinda i think its time to make the change.... the change is going to win the majority anyway

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:4970, old post ID:32113

[ggkthx]

Didn't have an insane number of people and didn't have deathblade summoners.

But no, we didn't have any spellcasters either.
I see NOTHING wrong with a spawn you can't/shouldn't bring your same old spawner char to. Adapt to the problem, don't make the problem adapt to you.

But since obviously it's going to be ruined by whiners, please change everything else on AoV too so I can just wither spam it to death. Thanks.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:4970, old post ID:32116

[Red Squirrel]

It's been a while since I looked at the code but doesn't the damage only get reflected if it's a spell? I also think area of effect spells don't count when spells are in fact reflected.

That said I am willing to make the proposed change if the votes are in favor of it:

First Tier: Earth Elementals and Air Elementals
Second Tier: Fire Elementals and Water Elementals
Third Tier: Ice Elementals and Snow Elementals
Fourth Tier: Poison Elementals and Blood Elementals

(just a copy and paste of what Death posted)

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:4970, old post ID:32119

[ggkthx]

Of course the votes are going to be in favor of it.
People always want things to be easier.
If there was a poll asking if players want free arties or for tameables to always have max stats I'm sure that would get a lot of Yes votes too. Doesn't make it a good idea.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:4970, old post ID:32121

[Death]

It's been a while since I looked at the code but doesn't the damage only get reflected if it's a spell? I also think area of effect spells don't count when spells are in fact reflected.

That said I am willing to make the proposed change if the votes are in favor of it:

First Tier: Earth Elementals and Air Elementals
Second Tier: Fire Elementals and Water Elementals
Third Tier: Ice Elementals and Snow Elementals
Fourth Tier: Poison Elementals and Blood Elementals

(just a copy and paste of what Death posted)

Copper eles are 100% magic and 50% melee reflection. The proposed change is also more "elemental" IMO as there's a greater variety of paired spawns. The existing spawn is mostly just earth elementals with different colors.

Of course the votes are going to be in favor of it.
People always want things to be easier. If there was a poll asking if players want free arties or for tameables to always have max stats I'm sure that would get a lot of Yes votes too. Doesn't make it a good idea.

This is true, but at the same time, the spawn was easier before the unintentional ore elemental ability oversight so you can think of it like a rollback to how it was previously. Actually, there's more spell casting mobs now so it's still harder than what it was previously. I guess you can say it's in the middle with the proposed change (Not too easy, not too hard).

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[Trill]

They do reflect area effect spells and many of them reflect both spells and mellee.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:4970, old post ID:32138

[ggkthx]

I wish more people with some cajones and people who know how to play UO would get in here and vote to leave it alone.

(Sorry Doc, I'm just shocked that you of all people are on the side of the discussion that you're on. I consider you one of the best players on the shard, so no offense.)

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:4970, old post ID:32140

[dprantl]

Are you not understanding that it is NOT the same now as it was before? It was hard before but fun, now it's even harder. Making the proposed change will make it harder than before but not as hard as now. If we had a poll to make it even harder than it is now, you would vote yes?

100% spell reflect and 50% melee reflect on a game system that requires you to kill mobs as fast as you can sounds like sadism. It kinda reminds me of how those damn vorpal chickens ran away so fast and z0rak mini-healed when dying during the Sanders champ it was like their asses were on fire. You had to chase them so far that by the time you got back, you lost a candle.

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[ggkthx]

Unless it was changed in the last month I've done it the way it is now and think it's fine. Just to clear that up.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:4970, old post ID:32151

[Anonymous]

wehn do you think the change will happen

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:4970, old post ID:32160

[Red Squirrel]

This would only happen after the revamp as it requires a code change. The existing code is not stable enough to release.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:4970, old post ID:32165

[Anonymous]

another after the revamp thing..... lol

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:4970, old post ID:32166

[DOCTOR THUNDER]

Bubbles, It was a great champ to do before the changes to elementals. I enjoyed doing that champ with people. Now, after the change, the elementals reflect both melee and spell damage. It was better the way it was before. Still a challenge, but not rediculous like it is now.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:4970, old post ID:32173

[Red Squirrel]

another after the revamp thing..... lol

Anything that requires a code change cannot be done until the revamp, or at least a "pre revamp" update, which I may do. But regardless the existing dev code is not stable enough so we can't just throw it on live to fix a few minor things.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:4970, old post ID:32175

[Anonymous]

When do you think you are going to make the change?

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:4970, old post ID:32937