The custom arty replacement system.

Plastic Man · Post by **Plastic Man** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:22 am

As you have said that some customs will simply be nerfed/changed and not just removed. Will you offer players the chance to turn in arties that were simply changed for gold like you are going to do for the ones that are removed?

IMO it would only be fair to allow players a chance to turn in their arties that get changed if they do not like the way they are changed. I mean it isn't removing their stuff but it is permenantly, unilaterally changing their stuff otherwise.

For example:
Player X has a Black Hole Kryss with 100 LL 80 ML 90 SL.
After the revamp it would be 60 LL 40 ML 50 SL.
Instead of Player X just having to be stuck with an inferior (Albeit no longer overpowered) artifact that they worked worked way harder to get than they would have otherwise. What I'm suggesting is using the same re imbursement system you have announced to allow them to turn in that Blackhole for a set amount based upon what the value of the atifact was before the revamp (Because it is the pre revamp artifact they are losing).

I'm just bringing this up because you have gone to lengths to make sure that people don't worry about "losing all their work" with the revamp. But I haven't heard anything about this side of the changes.

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:23 am

That's all planned. We plan to have an auction system as well so we may use that, though we'll probably have another system in place to get gold for items. Not sure yet how it will work, but we want to make it fair.

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Plastic Man · Post by **Plastic Man** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:27 am

I just wanted to make sure you didn't overlook how nerf/chaning an item is almost as bad if not worse than getting rid of it altogether as most times the nerf simply screws over the players with the nerfed items. But on a scale of changes we are talking I personally don't believe its something that can be overlooked. I had heard about reimbursment for deleted artifacts but not for changed ones.

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Death · Post by **Death** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:53 pm

Plastic Man wrote:I just wanted to make sure you didn't overlook how nerf/chaning an item is almost as bad if not worse than getting rid of it altogether as most times the nerf simply screws over the players with the nerfed items. But on a scale of changes we are talking I personally don't believe its something that can be overlooked. I had heard about reimbursment for deleted artifacts but not for changed ones.

It's hard to tell really as we have not yet gone through the change/remove list so we don't know the future status of all custom artifacts (We have started this list but even then, many items are just ideas or prototypes that are subject to change).

The primary idea was to have a large auction system at the start (And one every week or every few weeks) that would recycle numerous items (via decay/trash) as well as through GM added items to the auction. Players would be reimbursed with gold and could buy new items (Some would simply be "buyouts" with a price tag that players would be the first to grab while others would be auctioned off).

Of course, some items will be changed stat-wise and still remain. We're currently thinking up a way to be fair about that, perhaps adding a special deed to reclaim the item or to pawn it for its gold value to give players a choice. They can either keep the changed item, or pawn it for a gold value.

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dprantl · Post by **dprantl** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:20 pm

Death wrote:
Plastic Man wrote:I just wanted to make sure you didn't overlook how nerf/chaning an item is almost as bad if not worse than getting rid of it altogether as most times the nerf simply screws over the players with the nerfed items. But on a scale of changes we are talking I personally don't believe its something that can be overlooked. I had heard about reimbursment for deleted artifacts but not for changed ones.
It's hard to tell really as we have not yet gone through the change/remove list so we don't know the future status of all custom artifacts (We have started this list but even then, many items are just ideas or prototypes that are subject to change).

The primary idea was to have a large auction system at the start (And one every week or every few weeks) that would recycle numerous items (via decay/trash) as well as through GM added items to the auction. Players would be reimbursed with gold and could buy new items (Some would simply be "buyouts" with a price tag that players would be the first to grab while others would be auctioned off).

Of course, some items will be changed stat-wise and still remain. We're currently thinking up a way to be fair about that, perhaps adding a special deed to reclaim the item or to pawn it for its gold value to give players a choice. They can either keep the changed item, or pawn it for a gold value.

For weapons, how about providing a masterpiece weapon of similar stats?

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Death · Post by **Death** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:27 pm

dprantl wrote: For weapons, how about providing a masterpiece weapon of similar stats?

Masterpiece system is also changing to be less reliant on "collecting" and hoping you get something of rarity to a better system that tracks your effort and rewards you for achieving goals such as fighting champions or doing difficult quests.

The masterpiece system is currently not a high priority considering the other pending updates for the shard and we wouldn't want to give an item if the system might be changed sometime after the revamp has occurred (Would be kind of counter productive replacing a changed item with another item that might be changed).

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Dollpartz · Post by **Dollpartz** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:29 am

Why are the customs being deleted anyway? Why not just make it so they don't drop anymore?

Like plastic said, the reinbursment will be way different unless you're wanting to add custom mods onto the OSI cloned item (which kind of defeats the purpose).
Selling your customs for gold will just be chaotic for the economy. Useless arties will go skyrocket in value.

I have a feeling all of the vets are going to get shafted...

Time to farm some gauntlet arties I guess...

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DOCTOR THUNDER · Post by **DOCTOR THUNDER** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 7:52 am

Dollpartz wrote: I have a feeling all of the vets are going to get shafted...

I have the same feeling... The admins excel at coding and creating a great server, but are somewhat lacking in the pr and customer service dept.

Perhaps they could incorporate the AoA trade-ins into the display at the casino. That way the players would know in advance what they would be getting and that would give the proactive players a chance to alter their suits accordingly BEFORE the revamp. That way they wouldn't have as much downtime while trying to find new peices to replace the missing AoAs.

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:46 pm

Not all of them will be deleted or changed. Some may simply be moved to another system, some may stay. I want to see if I can keep the AoA system and just make it better, though think 80% of the arties actually come from when the AoA system was first introduced, as they were too easy to get.

Anything that does get removed/changed will get removed globally though. I don't think it's right to introduce something in the game then stop it from dropping. Look at tots on demise, now it's a disaster.

Either way, when we get to the point of deciding what gets changed, we will make sure it's as fair as possible.

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Death · Post by **Death** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:44 pm

Red Squirrel wrote: Either way, when we get to the point of deciding what gets changed, we will make sure it's as fair as possible.

We WILL be making sure it's as fair as possible but yes, no matter how you look at it "somebody" is going to feel shafted, it's inevitable and sorry to say, but there is absolutely 0 chance that everyone is going to agree, so no point in trying to please everyone.

The main reasons for removing custom artifacts is OSI has enough artifacts (For all the customs we remove, OSI likely has the same amount we haven't even added yet. For example, all the artifacts from the community collections as well as other items that have been introduced during spring cleanups and such). We're reducing our customs for 2 reasons:

1) We have too many of them and when we add OSI's we'll have WAAAAAAAY too many of them. There has to be a comfortable limit.

2) Some of the custom artifacts overshadow OSI artifacts and may or may not be easier to obtain. For example, many people don't need ML artifacts as AOAs are seven times easier to obtain and 4 times better.

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Dollpartz · Post by **Dollpartz** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:24 am

Ok I do understand your point, but I don't think the economy on tots on demise isn't so bad.. sure AOA's would go skyrocket in prices but that's not such a bad thing, by keeping AOA's but making them so they don't drop anymore, they will become rare and increase in value but that is some sort of solice for the vets that have dedicated their time into this shard.. surely, no?

I don't want to sound like an ingrateful brat by complaining about this, I do believe the staff here are fair and want to do the right thing for the shard so I do have faith in your decision.. I guess I'm just being pessimistic.

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Death · Post by **Death** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:00 am

Dollpartz wrote:Ok I do understand your point, but I don't think the economy on tots on demise isn't so bad.. sure AOA's would go skyrocket in prices but that's not such a bad thing, by keeping AOA's but making them so they don't drop anymore, they will become rare and increase in value but that is some sort of solice for the vets that have dedicated their time into this shard.. surely, no?

I don't want to sound like an ingrateful brat by complaining about this, I do believe the staff here are fair and want to do the right thing for the shard so I do have faith in your decision.. I guess I'm just being pessimistic.

No, that's not really a sort of "solice" for the vets, that would be unfair to everyone else in the game. Why should a veteran get to keep a super powerful item that no longer spawns while a new player has to shell out their life savings to try and barter to get one.

Although we do appreciate the help veterans do on the shard in terms of guiding players and helping them out, there seems to be a feeling of "entitlement" amongst the vets here.

Simply put, veterans get to keep your house and any other accumulated wealth such as gold and OSI items when any other player gets to start at square one. The fact that we even thought considerably about reimbursing pretty much anything AND giving a fair reimbursement based on said item, is a gift to veteran players for playing on the shard.

Although not everyone will be pleased entirely with what gets "left behind" or "changed around" look at everything else you will be gaining from the revamp project. For those concerned about item status, you can wait till we publish a list of item changes sometime during the middle of the revamp project when we've had time to sit and think about each item in detail.

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Mika · Post by **Mika** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:28 am

Death wrote:
Although not everyone will be pleased entirely with what gets "left behind" or "changed around" look at everything else you will be gaining from the revamp project.

War of Shadows please and you can have all my worldly possessions.

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Death · Post by **Death** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:37 am

Mika wrote: War of Shadows please and you can have all my worldly possessions.

Depending on progress, they'll make it in either during or shortly after the revamp. The focus is on ML so any larger systems introduced after ML may not be included in the initial revamp, but once the revamp is complete, updates will proceed as normal so it may only take a few months at most to put that in.

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d. · Post by d. » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:24 am

People need to realize that while they loose AoAs, they gain a more balanced and fair server. I have tons of AoAs and custom items, and I am looking forward to the revamp. Everyone will be reimbursed on the same level, and you should be happy with what you get. The staff do enough already, and this revamp isn't to screw over vets and take away their items, it's to balanced the server and make it a more enjoyable experience for everyone.

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Death · Post by **Death** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:39 am

d. wrote:People need to realize that while they loose AoAs, they gain a more balanced and fair server. I have tons of AoAs and custom items, and I am looking forward to the revamp. Everyone will be reimbursed on the same level, and you should be happy with what you get. The staff do enough already, and this revamp isn't to screw over vets and take away their items, it's to balanced the server and make it a more enjoyable experience for everyone.

There will be a point of balance yes, but there are numerous other factors being considered during the revamp to improve the shard's design and architecture as all the staff are serious about AOV's success.

There will be a post in the FAQ shortly about what exactly is being done during the revamp project for those interested.

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Plastic Man · Post by **Plastic Man** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:41 am

I'm sorry, I wasn't meanign to come off as complaining about anything, I was simply searching for clarifications on what is happening and how. I was offering up some thoughts on the matter that I hadn't heard expressed yet so that they were on table. You know just getting the ideas out there and attempting gather as much informayion on it as possible. Knowing more about the changes to come and how they will affect you is the only smart way to play any game.

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Death · Post by **Death** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:46 am

Plastic Man wrote:I'm sorry, I wasn't meanign to come off as complaining about anything, I was simply searching for clarifications on what is happening and how. I was offering up some thoughts on the matter that I hadn't heard expressed yet so that they were on table. You know just getting the ideas out there and attempting gather as much informayion on it as possible. Knowing more about the changes to come and how they will affect you is the only smart way to play any game.

Players will be informed of upcoming changes when they are about to happen but only during that stage of the revamp. Right now the back-end changes are being done so players will only be informed about the back-end progress for the time being. New topics will be added in the revamp thread or the FAQ will be updated.

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Plastic Man · Post by **Plastic Man** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:57 am

Death wrote:
Plastic Man wrote:I'm sorry, I wasn't meanign to come off as complaining about anything, I was simply searching for clarifications on what is happening and how. I was offering up some thoughts on the matter that I hadn't heard expressed yet so that they were on table. You know just getting the ideas out there and attempting gather as much informayion on it as possible. Knowing more about the changes to come and how they will affect you is the only smart way to play any game.
Players will be informed of upcoming changes when they are about to happen but only during that stage of the revamp. Right now the back-end changes are being done so players will only be informed about the back-end progress for the time being. New topics will be added in the revamp thread or the FAQ will be updated.

Fair enough xD you can't blame me for wanting to know as soon as I can xD

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Kev6872 · Post by **Kev6872** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 4:08 am

First let me say that I am looking forward to the changes.
That said, I have some of the same questions and concerns as some of the other players.

PHASE 3: customs and ML
1- Remove most customs
2- Finish all of ML, code all the OSI artifacts/items that we are missing. (100's, if 1000's - this will be huge on it's own)
3- Rethink customs and reintroduce the ones that won't kill game play
4- Replace all existing customs (that were removed) with equivalent items or gold followed by a huge auction.

If you remove most customs in step 1 of phase 3 does this mean that they will all disappear? Or does it mean they will no longer drop?
I only ask because it looks like it may take a while between step 1 and step 4.

I can see Plastics point. Knowledge is power, having the time to adjust to changes before they happen would be one way of compensating vets for the time spent acquiring things they are about to lose.

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:15 am

In the first part it basically means for a period of time we'll have lot of beta testing without any customs. Then we will reintroduce some of them, but lot of them may be changed/removed/replaced. Lot of them might just be moved to another system and/or made more rare, which will also increase the value of the existing ones.

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Death · Post by **Death** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:33 am

Kev6872 wrote:First let me say that I am looking forward to the changes.
That said, I have some of the same questions and concerns as some of the other players.

PHASE 3: customs and ML
1- Remove most customs
2- Finish all of ML, code all the OSI artifacts/items that we are missing. (100's, if 1000's - this will be huge on it's own)
3- Rethink customs and reintroduce the ones that won't kill game play
4- Replace all existing customs (that were removed) with equivalent items or gold followed by a huge auction.

If you remove most customs in step 1 of phase 3 does this mean that they will all disappear? Or does it mean they will no longer drop?
I only ask because it looks like it may take a while between step 1 and step 4.

I can see Plastics point. Knowledge is power, having the time to adjust to changes before they happen would be one way of compensating vets for the time spent acquiring things they are about to lose.

To answer your question, we will be removing many of the customs initially so that we can concentrate on what OSI has to offer first. So any extra/custom artifacts or pets will be put to the side until that stage in the revamp is done.

From there, we will be making a list of each system and calculating a percentage of allowance. This value represents the maximum allowance for customs in a particular system. For example, if OSI has 400 regular monsters, we would be allowed a maximum of 40 custom monsters.

So in the case of items and artifacts, we will be looking at all the drop systems such as paragon artifacts, ML minor artifacts, gauntlet drops etc etc and seeing how much of each system we can allow for customs (Not all artifacts are tossed into one massive list because of artifact values and difficulties of obtaining them).

Once we have an estimate for custom allowance on a system, then we can decide from there which artifacts are best suited. Suitable artifacts pretty much fall under three rules:

1) Not too similar to another artifact or item
2) Related to the world of Ultima by some kind of lore
3) Must match in bonuses related to a system (Like not dropping something huge like an ornament of the magician in a system such as tots).

Some artifacts are perfect the way they are, while others need a name/hue change or a few stats raised or lowered. Others should never have seen the light of day for being too crappy or too godly.

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Dollpartz · Post by **Dollpartz** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:08 pm

Death wrote:Others should never have seen the light of day for being too crappy or too godly.

Agreed

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jrhather · Post by **jrhather** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:40 am

DOCTOR THUNDER wrote:
Dollpartz wrote: I have a feeling all of the vets are going to get shafted...
I have the same feeling...

Me too. Hence why I dropped my house and left.

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Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:24 am

You have to remember, there is a LOT of time before ANY changes get done. Don't worry about it.

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