Should this shard be an OSI clone?

[Red Squirrel]

If I were to redo the shard, or make a new shard, should I make it an OSI clone? So basically we'd try to be as close to OSI as we can. TBH I think the custom stuff is what drives people away... The only stuff we'd do that's not OSI like is events, and in those events there could be custom items. But outside of events there would not be any custom stuff. No custom tamables, no custom arties, etc..

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3608, old post ID:23138

[Nexus Graveheart]

I voted yes. But I'd rather not see this shard become an OSI clone, I'd rather another shard, maybe added to the list after verifying account, be an OSI clone.

The custom content here is great, but at the same time, I'd like to be able to play a shard that is as close as possible to OSI without the monthly fee. And events and such would likely work in fine with an OSI clone because CTFs and Tourneys will bring in tons of players.

You could likely even set up an Event Moderator or Seer system, because that is something that many OSI players miss. You know, seemingly random story arcs that result in a monster bash or a mystery solving event. It was events like this that originally spurred OSI's now lucrative rares market.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3608, old post ID:23139

[Red Squirrel]

That's a thing too if I was to go with OSI clone I'd go all out. There are some weird things on OSI I personally don't agree with but if I think they'd be contreversal I'd cast a vote on it.

There would maybe be a slight few differences, like given we'd be starting from scratch I'd make tots drop, but maybe just make them rarer. Some stuff here and there would be slightly different but I would not go to the extent of adding custom items/monsters/dungeons etc.

So OSI clone is maybe not the best word, more like, OSI style.


-OR-

I can just improve this current shard. Still lot of stuff that needs to be added which could perhaps get more players.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3608, old post ID:23140

[Death]

If I were to redo the shard, or make a new shard, should I make it an OSI clone? So basically we'd try to be as close to OSI as we can. TBH I think the custom stuff is what drives people away... The only stuff we'd do that's not OSI like is events, and in those events there could be custom items. But outside of events there would not be any custom stuff. No custom tamables, no custom arties, etc..

Well, not all customs are bad, only ones that significantly alter gameplay (For example, custom event system and a few monsters are alright, provided the original monster actually fits into Ultima (Such as a mimic, not a stormtrooper)). Its when the customs shift the balance then it gets out of hand.

I think players are driven off more with the shard because it's a mashup of everything and nothing's really consistent. There's a ton of customs mixed in with OSI stuff which makes the shard difficult to get into. Players really don't want to have to research all this stuff.

I vote yes in the respect that the shard will actually have a plan this time around instead of seeing where the ideas would take us. Of course, even OSI makes stupid additions that we wouldn't want to follow through with.

Customs are a double edged sword. Customs create a unique identity to the shard which separates it from the rest of the shards. Customs can be a good thing, but great care must be made to ensure that if a custom is introduced, its impact on the game will be a positive one. Not to mention that because customs are not always based on a proven model, a lot of testing must be done for them (Such as the event system).

IMO there should be 90% official and 10% customs. Customs being restricted to lore based monsters/pets, events, decorative items/primitive equipment (By primitive, I mean items that do not take away from crafted goods being being far superior), and possibly skill revivals (Such as finding uses for dead skills such as taste ID, camping, etc that's both easy to understand/follow and not confusing).

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3608, old post ID:23142

[Death]

That's a thing too if I was to go with OSI clone I'd go all out. There are some weird things on OSI I personally don't agree with but if I think they'd be contreversal I'd cast a vote on it.

Think OSI hybrid would be a better word for it. 90% OSI, 10% custom.

I'd also suggest at least 2 more dedicated coders and quite a few more staff if you're serious about it.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3608, old post ID:23143

[Red Squirrel]

That's probably the best bet right there.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3608, old post ID:23144

[Anonymous]

Honestly Id like to see a osi clone maybe a tad bit fast skill gain but thats about it and less bugs of course and i can script somewhat also am good staff have ran servers before with 50+players! And have lots of time, currently home schooled with no job...

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3608, old post ID:23145

[Kev6872]

Can you tell us a little more about how it would change? Are you talking about everyone starting over from scratch? Would our vet status change? How about my Luna plot?

I have an account on Demise but I haven't played there, only refreshed my accounts. Mainly because I like it here. I like the customs like AoAs and the crafting system. I like the custom mobs and the ML content. At demise I was board out of my skull but here there is always something to do.

I wouldn't mind so much going to a OSI like shard but I hate the thought of starting my accounts over at day 1. If we could at least keep our houses and vet status I wouldn't feel like I have wasted my time here.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3608, old post ID:23149

[Death]

Can you tell us a little more about how it would change? Are you talking about everyone starting over from scratch? Would our vet status change? How about my Luna plot?

I have an account on Demise but I haven't played there, only refreshed my accounts. Mainly because I like it here. I like the customs like AoAs and the crafting system. I like the custom mobs and the ML content. At demise I was board out of my skull but here there is always something to do.

I wouldn't mind so much going to a OSI like shard but I hate the thought of starting my accounts over at day 1. If we could at least keep our houses and vet status I wouldn't feel like I have wasted my time here.

Well, the way it would likely end up working is anything that doesn't fall into the OSI like system would get removed from the game. We would be maybe 90% OSI, 10% Custom (And by customs, I mean that there would be a few tested items/systems that would go in game, but nothing that significantly alters gameplay. Also, we wouldn't be "exactly" like OSI such as the recipe system).

That being said, any item, pet, system that is custom that should not belong would likely be removed (Because we would allow some customs, not everything would be removed). So many artifacts, custom pets and custom areas would be removed and replaced with OSI equivalents.

An example of something that would be removed would be storm troopers and sith lords as they are not related to UO, although they may make a return for such things as events. Something custom that would stay would be the automated event system, but more events would be added such as an auction system. The dye ticket system would likely also remain but whether it would be a prize for event participants or obtainable through normal game means is unknown at this time. There would be quite a few standard UOML quests but of course, there would also be many custom ones as those are both easy to make and make the shard unique.

Anything that's standard with OSI such as UOML minor artifacts, would remain in the game. So if you have a soul seeker and heart of the lion, those would not be removed. Your houses and veteran status would remain as well. Crafted and looted goods is a possibility for remaining in game, depending on the goods. I know talismans and earrings are not OSI accurate in a couple of ways so turning them into OSI accurate pieces would mean that existing ones would have to be removed.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3608, old post ID:23151

[Zanza]

What death said seems cool like 90% osi and 10% custom.

I also like a lot the fact that there can be custom quests with a good story etc...

as long as items are balanced they wont hurt.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3608, old post ID:23153

[Death]

What death said seems cool like 90% osi and 10% custom.

I also like a lot the fact that there can be custom quests with a good story etc...

as long as items are balanced they wont hurt.

Quests really are the golden addition to any shard because you can create so many unique quests with different objectives and prizes. At the same time, we can restrict quests to certain classes that may not get the limelight, such as cooks and detectives (forensic evaluation) and give prizes that specifically benefit them, such as cooking recipes. Also, because we have so much control over quest objectives, it's a strong deterrent to scripters which makes it difficult to do quests through a script (This is great for players who play the game legitimately because they do not have to compete with getting goods that a scripter would have no problem obtaining).

There will be custom items, sure. I for one have a few plans to introduce stat raising items that cooks can make as OSI only gave them 3 new items (Grapes of Wrath, Enchanted Apples, Cake decorating tools). However, we would have a new practice with custom items where they enter a rigorous test phase before being launched into game and given a month of analysis on the live shard whether they will remain or be removed.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3608, old post ID:23157

[E.Machine]

Personally, I like some of the custom stuff.

I like some of the arties, decor, bosses, in game player commands, event system, etc. A lot of that stuff is incredibly awesome, and really fun to play with. But I really think (especially with artifacts) it went overboard.

The things that SHOULD remain OSI clone, is the gameplay, and the constant changes. You have to stop changing things. With that, everyone is always going to be complaining about something, and you're going to have to/want to change it again. I've made like 5 different pvp characters here, but only because the previous one keeps getting nerfed.

OSI style GAMEPLAY. Casting, damage, caps, loot (lets face it, the loot here is WAY TOO GOOD), yadda yadda, are allt hings that should remain OSI. But, you can't remove your creative aspect from the shard. That's what makes a custom shard run by one person really stand out, is it's creativity.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3608, old post ID:23159

[Tom]

Well one thing I can say that is a problem is port 1337. I only get to play when at work. Since I am a fireman I get a lot of free time. However, since I am playing from work I cant get them to open that port up. I work 6 to 7 days a week most of the time and play on another shard because it uses the standard port 2593. I know at least 10 people that wanted to join here but could not access that 1337 port using the college internet. So I only get to play when I am at home and honestly that has been like once a month. I love the shard and still go hunting them fel aoa's when ever I can get a chance to play. If it was moved to the standard port maybe many others could come experience what most of us love about Valor.

P.S. If the college and state agencies cant get to that port maybe there are many others with the same problem. I have tried to get the fire department to give me access for over a year now but they al ways say no.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3608, old post ID:23160

[Death]

Personally, I like some of the custom stuff.

I like some of the arties, decor, bosses, in game player commands, event system, etc. A lot of that stuff is incredibly awesome, and really fun to play with. But I really think (especially with artifacts) it went overboard.

The things that SHOULD remain OSI clone, is the gameplay, and the constant changes. You have to stop changing things. With that, everyone is always going to be complaining about something, and you're going to have to/want to change it again. I've made like 5 different pvp characters here, but only because the previous one keeps getting nerfed.

OSI style GAMEPLAY. Casting, damage, caps, loot (lets face it, the loot here is WAY TOO GOOD), yadda yadda, are allt hings that should remain OSI. But, you can't remove your creative aspect from the shard. That's what makes a custom shard run by one person really stand out, is it's creativity.

Those are all valid points and things we want to fix. However, we have come to realize that in order to fix everything, it has to be done in one fell swoop. We can't do mini updates as all the crucial changes cannot be fixed in one go. If we reduce something, something else becomes overpowered so they all have to be addressed and completed at the same time.

The reason there are so many artifacts is due to the fact that we had to keep making more to appeal to other systems. AOA and demitel are mostly to blame as they stole the thunder away from UOML and peerless bosses. IMO, OSI has enough artifact systems, we don't need our own. At best, we can just redesign some AOAs with new stats and different names pertaining to ultima lore (Like cyclist helm, where does THAT name fit in?). We could keep some of the bosses but add them in as "mini" bosses reachable through quests. Most of these bosses will be soloable or would allow you to bring in a certain amount of party members.

Ideally, I think it would be better to have quests in felucca where the reward would be a recipe to make some kind of artifact. It would be better this way as it would keep the player in felucca for a longer period of time than a champion or AOA camping would be.

I agree about the OSI style of gameplay. Some of the changes we made significantly altered fighting (Such as the corpse skin thing, but I blame uber loot and enhancing as the problem for getting resists so high. Normally it would not be a problem).

Loot IS really high, but that's because the loot system SUCKS. Squirrel will eventually redesign those classes so that loot actually makes sense and is easier to modify than the current system. Loot and crafting (Crafting also ties into loot) do need to be toned down quite a bit.

We can probably make a list of things to stay and things to go to create a server plan and see if it's worth following through on.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3608, old post ID:23161

[dprantl]

If you think the main reason lots of people left is because of the custom stuff, you are wrong. How does that make sense? If that was the case, there would never be any players here ever. There were many players here before and they loved the custom things, but then they were nerfed/changed to be more like OSI and people got pissed and left.

I.e., most players love the custom AoA's, but they keep getting more and more nerfed over time. The more they get weaker, the more pissed players become. You always say that this is a shard for the players. But there were many changes made without input from the players that were deemed necessary for balance. It is these changes that pissed the players off and made them leave.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3608, old post ID:23162

[TriX]

Well you'll lose another player.....me....if thats what your going to do. I'm not putting effort into getting good, when I could go back to OSI, with all my uber suits and templates.

The problem with this shard is there aren't enough people. Not anyones fault. Thats the only reason people leave. There's never really more than 10 people on at a time.

The reason GAME left is for a few reasons, the fact that they weren't allowed to PvP with more than one account at a time and the second fact that if Red/Death saw the GAME members farming a particular thing then they made it harder or lowered the drop rate. Thats the way they feel, so don't argue, whether its actually true or not.

I don't like OSI gameplay, but I do think that DI needs lowering, or damage caps putting in place. The rest of the things here are great, the custom arties are ace. Its what makes this shard.

It won't take much to improve gameplay here, as it is. And then the player base would improve. Don't do OSI!!

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3608, old post ID:23163

[dprantl]

Personally, I like some of the custom stuff.

I like some of the arties, decor, bosses, in game player commands, event system, etc. A lot of that stuff is incredibly awesome, and really fun to play with. But I really think (especially with artifacts) it went overboard.

The things that SHOULD remain OSI clone, is the gameplay, and the constant changes. You have to stop changing things. With that, everyone is always going to be complaining about something, and you're going to have to/want to change it again. I've made like 5 different pvp characters here, but only because the previous one keeps getting nerfed.

OSI style GAMEPLAY. Casting, damage, caps, loot (lets face it, the loot here is WAY TOO GOOD), yadda yadda, are allt hings that should remain OSI. But, you can't remove your creative aspect from the shard. That's what makes a custom shard run by one person really stand out, is it's creativity.

Those are all valid points and things we want to fix. However, we have come to realize that in order to fix everything, it has to be done in one fell swoop. We can't do mini updates as all the crucial changes cannot be fixed in one go. If we reduce something, something else becomes overpowered so they all have to be addressed and completed at the same time.

The reason there are so many artifacts is due to the fact that we had to keep making more to appeal to other systems. AOA and demitel are mostly to blame as they stole the thunder away from UOML and peerless bosses. IMO, OSI has enough artifact systems, we don't need our own. At best, we can just redesign some AOAs with new stats and different names pertaining to ultima lore (Like cyclist helm, where does THAT name fit in?). We could keep some of the bosses but add them in as "mini" bosses reachable through quests. Most of these bosses will be soloable or would allow you to bring in a certain amount of party members.

Ideally, I think it would be better to have quests in felucca where the reward would be a recipe to make some kind of artifact. It would be better this way as it would keep the player in felucca for a longer period of time than a champion or AOA camping would be.

I agree about the OSI style of gameplay. Some of the changes we made significantly altered fighting (Such as the corpse skin thing, but I blame uber loot and enhancing as the problem for getting resists so high. Normally it would not be a problem).

Loot IS really high, but that's because the loot system SUCKS. Squirrel will eventually redesign those classes so that loot actually makes sense and is easier to modify than the current system. Loot and crafting (Crafting also ties into loot) do need to be toned down quite a bit.

We can probably make a list of things to stay and things to go to create a server plan and see if it's worth following through on.

Death, with all due respect, if you do what you are proposing above, the shard will die. I fail to see any player complaining about having too many artifacts.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3608, old post ID:23164

[DOCTOR THUNDER]

I.e., most players love the custom AoA's, but they keep getting more and more nerfed over time. The more they get weaker, the more pissed players become. You always say that this is a shard for the players. But there were many changes made without input from the players that were deemed necessary for balance. It is these changes that pissed the players off and made them leave.

I have not read the entire thread yet, but I agree 100% with Altar on this one. The custom stuff is kind of crazy and probably needs to be toned down too. But here is a good example, awhile ago I got a Sacred Elemental bow in gauntlet. It was a gauntlet arty, and its a FUCKING demon slayer bow. Thats bullshit. If you are going to make an arty, make it worth using. I went to forums and said "the Sacred Elemental on display at the casino is a double slayer, why is mine only demon?". The response was, "We forgot about that one, its only supposed to be demon." Its fucking junk, but I had to kill 50 gauntlet bosses to get it. thats the type of bullshit that makes people mad. Now multiply that by about 100, once for every time the aoas, tamables, and pvp have been changed. Thats the reasons why people quit, they would rather play on a stable server.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3608, old post ID:23165

[DOCTOR THUNDER]

The reason GAME left is for a few reasons, the fact that they weren't allowed to PvP with more than one account at a time and the second fact that if Red/Death saw the GAME members farming a particular thing then they made it harder or lowered the drop rate. Thats the way they feel, so don't argue, whether its actually true or not.

Here is another valid point that I agree with 1000000000000%.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3608, old post ID:23166

[jrhather]

I won't be a part of AoV if it becomes another wannabe clone. What's holding me here and what's giving me the 'fun' factor is the fact that it's custom.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3608, old post ID:23167

[jrhather]

I.e., most players love the custom AoA's, but they keep getting more and more nerfed over time. The more they get weaker, the more pissed players become. You always say that this is a shard for the players. But there were many changes made without input from the players that were deemed necessary for balance. It is these changes that pissed the players off and made them leave.

We like shit that is over powered. UO is a game most of us have been playing for AGES. Playing a game by the rules for a decade gets boring. Sometimes we like to 'cheat' and make things fun again.

Don't take this shit too seriously.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3608, old post ID:23168

[Red Squirrel]

The reason we made it harder for game to farm is because the way they were doing it was a banable offense to begin with. Instead of policing and taking action only for it to happen again, we decided to change the game mechanics to try and stop it. It worked, maybe too well. We were either going to ban most of them, or make it harder/impossible to farm the way they did. (AFK) We kind of figured they'd quit over that as we never really saw them actually PLAY the game so if we stopped scripts we pretty much stopped them period, but at least there was a chance they'd stay. That's why we chose that route.

I rather have 10 people online that are real people, then 30 online but there's maybe 1 person in there actually in the same building as their computer is. If I want a bot shard I can host it at home on my private LAN, would cost less.

But seeing there's less favor of OSI clone that makes it easier for us so we'll stick with that. We just need to fix the stuff that's out of wack when we're out of our break period. There's still lot of stuff to add that has not been added yet as well.

I keep debating as well if I want to make a server from scratch or not. By doing that though I'd be ditching all the work we did but getting a more stable server in the end, so its a tough decision. There's some stuff thats simply out of our control as the code is such a mess, such as the loot system and damage calculation system (though I did do a half decent cleanup in there a while back)

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3608, old post ID:23169

[TriX]

GAME left because they felt picked on. I know your reasons for doing it, but it was a little under-hand.

They have said that they'll come back if you ever get a fair player base and PvP picks up. But first, I think 80 damage lightening strikes need to go..... sorry, I like them too.

I'll stick it out if your keeping AoV like it is, with slightly better PvP.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3608, old post ID:23170

[Red Squirrel]

I had no idea LS was doing 80 damage. I put in a ticket to get it fixed. It was mentioned earlier and fixed but apparently its not working again.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3608, old post ID:23171

[DOCTOR THUNDER]

GAME left because they felt picked on. I know your reasons for doing it, but it was a little under-hand.

Another point I agree with. Both sides of it. There have been a lot of times when people have felt picked on, and thats mostly the reason for quitting.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:3608, old post ID:23173