Update [Mar 13 08] - Tons of tweaks, fixes and more

[Red Squirrel]

The main reason they were removed was to avoid having to buff monsters more. I saw someone able to pretty much take down any boss with double slayer in 5 secs when that boss should take maybe half an hour to solo. So the other solution would have been to buff mobs even more. If everything is as easy to kill as mongbats then it dis balances everything.

Also the changes improved weapon damages a bit so that makes up for it.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2480, old post ID:15887

[Death]

My question still stands. Why was this changed now when it was in place since the inception of the shard? Do you guys think that it somehow detracts from gameplay? It's the same old argument, toning down the players while buffing the mobs when most of the time there is insufficient shard population logged on to tackle the more interesting and rewarding activities. OSI can afford this because they have hundreds of players on at all times. I.e. I could log on at any time and find bunches of people to do a peerless with. Now that double-slayers do not stack, there's no way in hell any peerless can be soloed, unless you like to spend 4 hours beating on one mob. Take a look at the Submersia peerless. It's brilliant, but it was specifically designed to not be possible with less than 3 people. So how many times has it been done? I bet less than 10 times total, ever. It's just a shame. OSI also has instanced corpses which makes doing a peerless with multiple players actually worth it, instead of getting a seizure trying to grab stuff from a corpse as fast as you can.

And yes I know what everyone will say, "but those things were not meant to be soloed". Ok sure, but for these things there are meant to be hundreds of people online, and there are meant to be instanced corpses. I think some changes need to be a prerequisite for others.

You've got a point about the whole slaying argument. The reason submersia palace was created was to give a group of players something to strive for, a challenge if you will. When one day a guild says to themselves "Hey, we've done everything besides take down the boss in submersia ruins, I think we can do it now when we couldn't do it before". It also emphasizes a great deal of teamwork.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2480, old post ID:15888

[d.]

well, I have finally finished testing all of the meele skills with the new changes on the REAL server. Here are my thoughts:

fencing: got a much needed swing boost, excellent.
macing: pretty much got a nerf, the swing of 1.75 makes it way too slow against mages, and the new cap of 120 raw dmg makes no difference, I was hitting for the same amount pre patch.
swords: feels identical to pre-patch
archery: With archery Im constantly hitting for 30-31 dmg (normal shots) and it is as fast as swords, and faster than macing now, with a bow I can easily outdamage anyone when they try to heal. Damien and me tested this and there is no way even his mage can heal through my dexxer /w a bow. Archery is simply overpowered a bit with this patch.
wrestling: pure mages still left out in the dust, I awaite the day that there becomes incentive to play pure mage =p.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2480, old post ID:15904

[Finlander]

Are you saying that mage should be able to outheal a archer shooting arrows at him, both staying still? Sorry but i dont get it.

And no iam not being negative here, but thats how i understanded your post.
In my oppinion fights get rather boring if you know your opponent can anytime just stop moving and basicaly just outheal the damage your making.

It has been like that before, and it didnt really work..

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2480, old post ID:15906

[Death]

well, I have finally finished testing all of the meele skills with the new changes on the REAL server. Here are my thoughts:

fencing: got a much needed swing boost, excellent.
macing: pretty much got a nerf, the swing of 1.75 makes it way too slow against mages, and the new cap of 120 raw dmg makes no difference, I was hitting for the same amount pre patch.
swords: feels identical to pre-patch
archery: With archery Im constantly hitting for 30-31 dmg (normal shots) and it is as fast as swords, and faster than macing now, with a bow I can easily outdamage anyone when they try to heal. Damien and me tested this and there is no way even his mage can heal through my dexxer /w a bow. Archery is simply overpowered a bit with this patch.
wrestling: pure mages still left out in the dust, I awaite the day that there becomes incentive to play pure mage =p.

These are the kinds of posts I like seeing. Gives a lot of useful information so things can be adjusted.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2480, old post ID:15910

[Plastic Man]

D,
So what you are saying is that you don't want archers to be able to kill you at all. You want to be able to out heal any damage I throw your way? Ok, then if it is made to be so i demand bandages be made to only be 1 sec heals so that there is no way for a mage to cast fast enough to overcome my heals either. Fair is Fair right?

No the fact of the matter is that all classes need to have a way to overcome heals or no one ever dies. especially in field fights, it is always useful to tactically retreat and heal and come back to dish out some more damage. Maybe thats what you don't understand, you are supposed to have to retreat some times and not just stand and tank everyone. Yes, even you, should have to retreat soemtimes. If there is EVER any class that can just tank every other template without ever having to step back (or retreat) and heal, that template is over powered.

Asking for a mage to be able to outright tank is ludicrous, especially when I know that you have combos that can kill me just as fast I can shoot 3-4 arrows if not faster with a precast (those so called "insta" kills that people complain about).

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2480, old post ID:15914

[Damien]

To me, it doesn’t make sense for an archer to do normal attacks and be able to easily do more damage then a mage can heal. It makes sense for other wep skills due to the fact that they have to be close to the target. If you add the fact that you can be stamed, para shot, deathstrike, double strike for over 70 dmg, psn arrow, and moving shot ( I believe this was changed in some way, not 100% sure how it works now), this doesn't seem balanced to me.

I know one character can't do all of those things, just listing things that you can add to the normal attacks. The normal attacks that do more damage then can be healed.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2480, old post ID:15915

[sliptongue69]

Simply put, dexxers are HARD to disrupt their healing. It's easy as hell to disrupt a mages healing ability. Unless of course you chug pots like it's nothing.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2480, old post ID:15921

[Plastic Man]

And all I'm saying is if you make it so that archers cant get through a mage tanking, then what would be the point of playing an Archer. Hell, I have to run all the time against mages because they dish out so much damage so fast. It's not unfair for a mage to have to do the same. And yes we get specials, but to paraphrase what one of you mages said earlier you have 64 magery spells and another 18 necro spells and you have all your specials too if you play a hybrid template like every PvP mage does.

And yes bandies are hard to disrupt. But mage heals can heal way way faster at the cost of mana, thats the tradeoff. But Bandies are easy to disrupt, thats why you all "In Nox" now oh shit I have to wait another 3 secs to get healin in. 3 secs in a fight seems like a lifetime, and often it is the end of one.

And the fact of the matter is not very many archers out there CAN do more than a mage can heal even with the update. Not every one of them has QoR, most of them are not 120 tact/anat, and not all of them even use a hit spell bow. Were you testing with a GM Archer/Tact/Anat char too? Can every archer do it with a basic bow (with DI like except crafted)? Or is it just an artied out archer with all the best equip and max HCI that can hit "normal" shots too fast to heal?

Because if its the latter, and not the former then Boo Hoo. You can dish out so much damage i have to run after 2 shots or risk dieing hoping my last shot connects.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2480, old post ID:15923

[Red Squirrel]

I can take a look at macing, I can put it at 1.5 instead. I figured it would be doing massive damage as it is basically not capped. (it is but with such high number its hard to reach it)

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2480, old post ID:15925

[Damien]

I am also testing on a mage with 120 mage with max dci, 120 wep skill, and 2/6. By your logic, mages should be balanced by looking at one with gm eval and mage along with lesser items. Also, you can heal while you run. If im a mage, I have to stop to heal. An archer will catch up to me and we will be right back where we started, the archer doing more damage then I can heal.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2480, old post ID:15926

[Red Squirrel]

Mages can also do damage and do it faster, does come at the penalty of being able to be disrupted but disarm will fix that and give 3ish seconds to combo.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2480, old post ID:15928

[d.]

base spell dmg is so nerfed on here, not a single mage can outdamage my dexxer on here. I'll be happy to prove it.

Good runic bow + QoR + full 120 archer with full mods hits for 30-31 hits (+10-11 dmg from lightning on bow) + evil omen ps.

evil omen normal shot /w my bow = 50 dmg, i can cast evil omen in between each shot with 2/6 necro, thats 100 dmg in 1 swing + 1.5/sec until next swing.

On a mage explo ebolt lightning (takes about 3 seconds) does 75 dmg. That is with the best gear possible, max sdi, x6 120 skills.

so, with a little math, my archer can do about 150 dmg in three seconds (initial hit + 2 consecutive swings), and it takes only mana to do evil omen. My mage, with three seconds of casting is doing the 75 dmg combo, which is after the curse, which takes about a second to cast, and takes much more mana, and is much more macro-intense for the player.

*ALSO consider the fact mages can only cast heal/cure OR offense, while a dexxer can shoot + use aids (both defense + offense at the same time.) Dexxers can also run while using aids, mages stop to heal. As well as the fact you only have to stop for a split second to shoot and arrow, and if you are meele not stop at all, while a mage is paused from each spell.

I've tested over 20 mage templates on Arizona and Pontious, and maybe 5 different templates on loler (+ each of those five templates each trying swords/macing/arch/fenc.)

There is no way in hell any mage can out damage a properly built dexxer on here.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2480, old post ID:15937

[Damien]

At the speed an archer can attack, its rather hard to get a good combo off without being forced to heal.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2480, old post ID:15938

[Plastic Man]

So why then are you and damien Able to kill so many people with your mages? Or are you saying that you can't EVER win against a dexxer with this change? I fought Damien 3 times yesterday. He won 2/3. I'm sorry, but other than maybe you, I'm pretty sure I have one of the best dexxer suits on the shard, and most will agree I'm one of the better dexxers. And on that note, Damien is one of the best mages on here, and I know he has a good suit. So if mage is underpowered now, why can he still beat me more?

Oh wait I forgot. It's because he can't tank me like I'm nothign and then hand my ass to me with one combo. Because after watching him fight me, and you still complaining, thats all I can imagine it is.

Guess what? No one should be an unstoppable tank. There should be a way to kill everyone.

Plus, I know a 75 point combo isnt the best you can muster. I've heard people claim you can insta kill, 75 damage wouldnt get claims like that. I think your real combo damage might be a bit more than that.

Oh and I forgot that necro archer was the only type of archery there is and since an EO Archer deals that much damage we are all broken. I must remeber to write that down.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2480, old post ID:15942

[Damien]

There should be a way to kill everyone.

Are we trying to make rock, paper, scissors here or are we trying to make an all around balanced system?

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2480, old post ID:15945

[d.]

Plastic, you ask why Damien and me can kill some many people /w our mages? It is simple:

balancing does not mean give everyone 50-50 chance of winning a 1 vs 1.

Balancing is making templates viable so that SKILL is the dominant factor in winning in pvp.

Why do we win? Because we have been pvping for years and we know this game like the back of our hands.

TBH, it seems on this server that heres how balance changes go:

mage catagory consists of me and damien, two excellent mages.

everyone else plays dexxer (for the most part).

I have pvped for about 9 years now, and not to sound cocky, but I am an excellent mage. I have only ran into a few mages over the course of my AoS career that give me a run for my money. I'm sure staff watches us pvp, and they see me destroy random dexxers. Automatically, the dexxers start to cry one of the following:
-I am a hacker/cheater and need to be banned asap
-mages are too overpowered (even though they have been nerfed like crazy on here compared to dexxers)

Dexxers are fairly simple to play, but a veteran mage with a half decent suit should be able to rip one apart, and my guild does this constantly. It is not unbalanced, it is less skilled people claiming it is unbalanced.

I never said I can't beat dexxers with my mage now that this new patch is out. What I said was that my dexxer is basically god-mode right now, I'll fight anyone with a 20kk gold bet on my dexxer. If I play a mage I don't really care what other people do because I will likely win, but now when I play my dexxer it is just rediculous how much damage I do.

As Damien said, are we trying to make this rock paper scissors or are we trying to make a balanced ULTIMA system?

The majority of people on here talk about things being unbalanced, and forget that the largest deciding factor in this game is PLAYER SKILL. When you "balance" the game by negating all player skill, and make it a game of caps/nerf/balanced, it simply becomes rock/paper/scissors.

It's like playing chess against a world champion and loosing, and then saying the rules should be changed and that they should replace the pieces and the board with two dice, and having people roll.....all chance, no skill.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2480, old post ID:15956

[d.]

I have pvped for about 9 years now

On osi clones / osi?

Youre now on custom shard

Played on OSI since it came out, then I played OSI + RunUO when it came out. Now just RunUO. I've played all formed of this game ever since they came out.

Nice try Hector.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2480, old post ID:15962

[Finlander]

Do you know what custom shard means?

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2480, old post ID:15963

[Death]

I'm sure staff watches us pvp, and they see me destroy random dexxers. Automatically, the dexxers start to cry one of the following:
-I am a hacker/cheater and need to be banned asap
-mages are too overpowered (even though they have been nerfed like crazy on here compared to dexxers)

Sounds about right, goes something like:

*Watches somebody running away and getting explosion FS ko'd off their mount*

Five seconds later on public chat:

[chat OMFG (Insert_name_here) is a loser hacker

Amusing really. You can almost time the shit talk from the point of death.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2480, old post ID:15964

[Craig]

Also one difference between healing for mages and archer, is that mages have to usually go on the defensive while healing, where he has no offense, and archers can do both offense and defense at the same time.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2480, old post ID:15965

[d.]

I'm sure staff watches us pvp, and they see me destroy random dexxers. Automatically, the dexxers start to cry one of the following:
-I am a hacker/cheater and need to be banned asap
-mages are too overpowered (even though they have been nerfed like crazy on here compared to dexxers)

Sounds about right, goes something like:

*Watches somebody running away and getting explosion FS ko'd off their mount*

Five seconds later on public chat:

[chat OMFG (Insert_name_here) is a loser hacker

Amusing really. You can almost time the shit talk from the point of death.

el oh el. I agree death.

In no way do I want to nerf dexxers, but before this patch they were decent and maybe needed a slight boost, but now it's pretty sick.

Death if you or red squirrel want to take a look at the damage I'm doing on my dexxer, lets arrange a meeting in game. you guys can be on a mage and try to heal through it =p.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2480, old post ID:15966

[Red Squirrel]

If damage is the main issue, I can look at tweaking the formula a bit.

Also what types of stats/skills/mods are these chars?

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2480, old post ID:15967

[Death]

I'm sure staff watches us pvp, and they see me destroy random dexxers. Automatically, the dexxers start to cry one of the following:
-I am a hacker/cheater and need to be banned asap
-mages are too overpowered (even though they have been nerfed like crazy on here compared to dexxers)

Sounds about right, goes something like:

*Watches somebody running away and getting explosion FS ko'd off their mount*

Five seconds later on public chat:

[chat OMFG (Insert_name_here) is a loser hacker

Amusing really. You can almost time the shit talk from the point of death.

el oh el. I agree death.

In no way do I want to nerf dexxers, but before this patch they were decent and maybe needed a slight boost, but now it's pretty sick.

Death if you or red squirrel want to take a look at the damage I'm doing on my dexxer, lets arrange a meeting in game. you guys can be on a mage and try to heal through it =p.

We can arrange a meeting sometime around thursday or friday to analyze the potential and increase damages if necessary. I'll check around in game. You can pm me your character names.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2480, old post ID:15971

[Damien]

We can arrange a meeting sometime around thursday or friday to analyze the potential and increase damages if necessary. I'll check around in game. You can pm me your character names.

I hope you mean mean decrease the damages.

To answer red's question, D.'s dexxer loler is max stats, max skills, all the top arties. The damage is a bit too high, and is very unbalanced when comparing it to our mages of equal 120's, top gear, and one of us trying to heal/kill the dexxer.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2480, old post ID:15976