Want the boring monster AI back?

[Red Squirrel]

It seems we've lost a few players because "monsters are too hard" and it seems some people want the old AI back. Remember, the one that does magic arrow, fireball, explosion, and once in a blood mood flamestrike, after it just sits there and takes a beating for a while then when it has 10 hp left it tries to heal once but fails.

Ronins are punch bags, so is pretty much any other mob that has no magery.

Or we can keep the current AI that does pretty much all spells, and knows how to use it's abilities better. It's harder, but makes PVM that much more interesting and unpredictable.

If the AI were to be reverted back, loot would be nerfed with it to keep a balance.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2035, old post ID:13201

[Apple Puff]

I WANT TO CHNGE MY VOTE TO CHANGE IT lol

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2035, old post ID:13202

[sliptongue69]

I prefer the new AI, but I am a serious veteran of UO and like the challenge.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2035, old post ID:13206

[Death]

Think getting rid of the ai would be way boring. I can't picture fighting a monster without the tactics it has now. The timing of some of the moves makes them seem like they're players at their computers

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2035, old post ID:13211

[sliptongue69]

What I would like back is pet AI...pets/summons wandering the fuck off because you aren't around is kinda lame.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2035, old post ID:13212

[DOCTOR THUNDER]

What I would like back is pet AI...pets/summons wandering the fuck off because you aren't around is kinda lame.

I have to agree with Enkel on this. Even if you are on the same screen they still take off like a bat out of hell once the target is killed. Its frustrating when you are trying to double client 2 tamers in gauntlet. As soon as the monster dies you gotta yell "all guard" or else your pets will be on the other side of the map.

And as far as monster ai is concerned, my opinion is that its at a good level. Its not as tough as the previous AI, and there isnt the super annoying run and heal.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2035, old post ID:13213

[dprantl]

The problem with pets is that once they kill something they don't "wander", they turn around and run as fast as they can away from the owner. Sometimes I have trouble catching up with them on foot if they are fast movers.

Another annoying thing about AI is the ability to reveal players no matter where they are in a matter of seconds. I refuse to believe that in a completely open area with, what, 30 tiles they can reveal almost immediately repeatedly only because they just randomly happened to get you by chance. I think the AI just needs a few more tweaks.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2035, old post ID:13214

[sliptongue69]

Yeah. It's not even like you guys crippled lightning strike so it can be chained anymore. O.o Dunno why that guy was whining so much.


Also can't logout in Luna anymore.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2035, old post ID:13215

[DOCTOR THUNDER]

I agree that the monster AI still needs tweaks. It sounds like the AI changes seemed to conflict with indigo's gaming more than it effected most people. In that case, he has a right to complain. Perhaps he never was AI'd by swoop before, so he thinks that was changed too.

I can understand how frustrating it is to have something changed, especially with no notice and for no apparent reason.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2035, old post ID:13216

[Red Squirrel]

Yeah AI is something that always needs tweaks.

I noticed the pet thing, thats actually not what I intended them to do, they should wander around yes but not dart in one direction. Originally this was because people would tank a mob with a pet and vet with another char so the mob does not switch targets, but once I change up the target switch algorthim to be better this won't be needed. Mobs will swap targets at random, right now what happens is whoever is tanking then regets target right away.

But yeah pet thing I have to look into.

And believe it or not the reveal IS random. Though depending on their magery and detect hidden skill, when they target a tile it can be quite a big area, like 5*5 tile area or so. Their mana regen plays a role in how often they'll do it too. You can see them cast the spell on humanoid mobs and they will do it often enough.

Oh and the logging out thing is probably because of the 2008 house plot on top of luna, the region is taking priority. That reminds me I need to make it so logging off checks if a inn npc is around, rather then go by region.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2035, old post ID:13217

[DOCTOR THUNDER]

the reveal is a pain in the ass

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2035, old post ID:13219

[sliptongue69]

Something I just thought of. Why don't you do it this way, only make major changes like this every so often, maybe once a month, but constantly fix bugs.

I think that's partially what's driving people off. You change the server so much and most people don't like change, especially drastic changes like you do.

I personally find it great, and I would assume most others that have stayed threw thick and thin do too.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2035, old post ID:13222

[Death]

Something I just thought of. Why don't you do it this way, only make major changes like this every so often, maybe once a month, but constantly fix bugs.

I think that's partially what's driving people off. You change the server so much and most people don't like change, especially drastic changes like you do.

I personally find it great, and I would assume most others that have stayed threw thick and thin do too.

That's what he's been doing for quite a while, fixing up the smaller stuff but there's a lot of loose ends that need to be tied and most of them fall into improving large systems like ai and such so changes like that are needed (For example, the special shot change and weapon re-equip was needed for ronin and ninja and the effect of long range special shots was needed in order to complete twaulo of the glade who was put on hold until that part was completed).

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2035, old post ID:13223

[Red Squirrel]

yeah often what happens a major system needs to be improved so we can fix another issue more efficiently, so fixing a small issue can end up requiring to change a lot so that it all falls together nicely.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2035, old post ID:13225

[Gaiava Arkkaza]

Hell no. That paragon lich was as hard as z0rak when he was pissed.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2035, old post ID:13227

[Red Squirrel]

Yeah and it should be.

Compare the litche's stats to Zorak's and the lich has better stats, so do most other medium/big mobs. A typical player may have 100ish of each stat and skill while a mob will have near 1000 of some stats, and some even over 120 of a certain skill.

So really monsters should be as hard as what their stats are. tbh the current AI still only uses maybe 50% of the mob's true capacity of what it could dish out. At one point it was near 100% but think we lost a couple players over that one... "Monsters are too hard" then they go play DFI and get pwnt by pkers while trying to get artys in gaunt lol.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2035, old post ID:13228

[DOCTOR THUNDER]

the monsters have to be challenging, but at the same time still fun. When the monster AI was turned all the way up, some of the monsters were almost like real players. If I have to go thru all that just to kill a gd lich, then he better drop a real player's suit.

Red, you have a great server, but sometimes you don't realize that some of your changes make things very frustrating for players. IE, the running and heal spam AI that hopefully will never come back. Making things a challenge and fun is different than making them frustrating and not worth it to play.

Most ppl play this game to win in their own special way. Whether its pvp, crafting, collecting, or especially pvm, people play in hopes of winning and getting a reward. Your 100% monster AI made it difficult and frustrating to pvm. The introduction of special shots made it frustrating for indigo. You don't have to give away arties for people to have fun. They just need to feel like they accomplished something. I remember days when a friend and I really felt good about getting 5k gold after an hours work in wind. With the monster AI that valor has right now, we would not have been able to do even that.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2035, old post ID:13231

[Red Squirrel]

Loot is something in the works, I just need to rewrite the whole system, which I'll probably do when I code instanced corpses.

Though its sad that something as simple as a RNG causing a mob to hit a special twice can make someone who was dedicated to the shard totally quit.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2035, old post ID:13232

[theindigothief]

Okay, my reasoning for why Lightning strike is legit chaining wise is that it does not offer crits that often. Also, it gives HCI which unfortunately is kinda pointless. If it gave crits all the time it would be crazy. Also, it requires a skill to use as opposed to just the weapon itself. Bushido has only 6 spells. Honorable execution is not PvP at all. Momentum strike is useless also. Confidence is good outside of battle but again falls short of PvP worthiness. Counterstrike is good versus dexxers, and Evasion is no longer chainable(very wise choice Red.) Lightning Strike basically offers the chance for a critical . . . about 20% of the time when you invest 120 points into the skill. Now compair that to Armor Ignore which does 90% of your damage(usually 35 because of the PvP cap) every time. This explains the need for AI not being chained. I guess I feel that if you want to invest 115 points into a skill, its nice to have 2(3 if you count Confidence in between during field fights) spells that are viable for PvP.

Onto PvM. I do not know why, but it just disheartened me knowing that my Vammy is now obsolete. Sure, I can now use my tamers, mages, archers and disco/whatevs and have a more fair challenege . . . but when I use my ungimped(PvM wise . . . Enkel believes hes gimp PvP) dexxer I get wtfpwnt by just about everything I used to hunt. Being someone who spends about 2+ hours a night PvMing due to a lack of PvP options I did not mind how it was prior. I would just scale up my oposition vs. what level of challenge I wanted.

And you are right Squirrel, it does seem like players are behind the mobs. Now ask yourself . . . what chance do you have against a player with 2K+ hp and 0 lag.

I know I get owned.


Squirrel, its not like it happened once. It kept happening. I died about 10+ times to stuff that normally would redline . . . but not 2-3 hit kill me on a consistent basis.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2035, old post ID:13238

[theindigothief]

Its funny, I actually love getting owned by players. Atleast they make it fun and adds interaction. If I want to be owned by a computer I'd play Deep Blue . . . instead I am playing a 10 year old MMORPG.

Not to nit-pick . . . but the poll seems biased Sorry, Psychology classes own me irl.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2035, old post ID:13239

[Red Squirrel]

LS should be chainable, just tried it.

Also the thing is, the AI tweaks did not affect Swoop, this is the script for it:

Code: Select all

using System;
using Server;
using Server.Items;
using System.Collections;

namespace Server.Mobiles
{
	[CorpseName( "a swoop corpse" )]
	public class Swoop : BaseCreature
	{
	
		public override WeaponAbility GetWeaponAbility()
		{
			switch ( Utility.Random( 2 ) )
			{
				default:
				case 0: return WeaponAbility.ArmorIgnore;
				case 1: return WeaponAbility.CrushingBlow;
			}
		}
		
		[Constructable]
		public Swoop () : base( AIType.AI_Melee, FightMode.Closest, 18, 1, 0.2, 0.4  )
		{
			Name = "Swoop";
			Hue = 222;
			Body = 5;
			BaseSoundID = 0x2EE;			
			
			SetStr( 139, 196 );
			SetDex( 428, 489 );
			SetInt( 84, 129 );

			SetHits( 576, 612 );

			SetDamage( 20, 30 );

			SetDamageType( ResistanceType.Physical, 100);

			SetResistance( ResistanceType.Physical, 70);
			SetResistance( ResistanceType.Fire, 35, 40 );
			SetResistance( ResistanceType.Cold, 43, 50 );
			SetResistance( ResistanceType.Poison, 23, 43 );
			SetResistance( ResistanceType.Energy, 25, 45 );

			SetSkill( SkillName.Anatomy, 45.6, 62.4 );
			SetSkill( SkillName.Meditation, 30.6, 60.3 );
			SetSkill( SkillName.MagicResist, 99.1, 104.3 );
			SetSkill( SkillName.Tactics, 97.8, 109.2 );
			SetSkill( SkillName.Wrestling, 90.2, 114.0 );

			Fame = 5000;
			Karma = -5000;

			VirtualArmor = 36;
		}

		public override void GenerateLoot()
		{
			AddLoot( LootPack.UltraRich, 2 );
			AddLoot( LootPack.FilthyRich );
		}
		
		public override bool Unprovokable{ get{ return true; } }
		public override int TreasureMapLevel{ get{ return 3; } }
		public override bool IsMLCreature { get { return true;} }
		public override bool IsMLBoss { get { return true;} }
 
 
		public override void OnGaveMeleeAttack( Mobile defender )
		{
			base.OnGaveMeleeAttack( defender );

			if ( 0.2 > Utility.RandomDouble() )
			{
				ExpireTimer timer = (ExpireTimer)m_Table[defender];

				if ( timer != null )
				{
					timer.DoExpire();
					defender.SendMessage("Swoop lands another blow in your weakened state"); 
				}
				else
					defender.SendMessage("Swoop's talons reduce your physical resistance");

				int effect = -(defender.PhysicalResistance * 15 / 100);

				ResistanceMod mod = new ResistanceMod( ResistanceType.Physical, effect );

				defender.FixedEffect( 0x37B9, 10, 5 );
				defender.AddResistanceMod( mod );

				timer = new ExpireTimer( defender, mod, TimeSpan.FromSeconds( 5.0 ) );
				timer.Start();
				m_Table[defender] = timer;
			}
		}

		private static Hashtable m_Table = new Hashtable();

		private class ExpireTimer : Timer
		{
			private Mobile m_Mobile;
			private ResistanceMod m_Mod;

			public ExpireTimer( Mobile m, ResistanceMod mod, TimeSpan delay ) : base( delay )
			{
				m_Mobile = m;
				m_Mod = mod;
				Priority = TimerPriority.TwoFiftyMS;
			}

			public void DoExpire()
			{
				m_Mobile.RemoveResistanceMod( m_Mod );
				Stop();
				m_Table.Remove( m_Mobile );
			}

			protected override void OnTick()
			{
				m_Mobile.SendLocalizedMessage( 1070838 ); // Your resistance to physical attacks has returned.
				DoExpire();
			}
		}
		
		public Swoop( Serial serial ) : base( serial )
		{
		}

		public override void Serialize( GenericWriter writer )
		{
			base.Serialize( writer );
			writer.Write( (int) 0 );
		}

		public override void Deserialize( GenericReader reader )
		{
			base.Deserialize( reader );
			int version = reader.ReadInt();

		}
	}
}

It does not even use the SuperAI, which is the spell casting multi skill one that is normally tweaked, as it controls 90% of creature abilities/reactions etc.

Also the weapon switching and special shot thing would not affect swoop either, as it has no wep, and is not humanish. The wep special code affects only human mobiles. This is the code that decides which special to use:

Code: Select all

		public virtual double WeaponAbilityChance{ get{ return 0.3; } }
		public virtual bool UseEquippedWeaponAbility{ get{ return Body.IsHuman; } }		

		public virtual WeaponAbility GetWeaponAbility()
		{
			if(UseEquippedWeaponAbility)
			{
				BaseWeapon wep = BaseWeapon.FindEquippedWeapon(this);
				if(wep==null)return null;
				
				double skill=this.Skills[wep.GetUsedSkill( this, true )].Value;
				
				if(wep!=null)
				{
					if(skill>=70 && (0.6 >Utility.RandomDouble()|| skill<90))return wep.PrimaryAbility;
					else if(skill>=90)return wep.SecondaryAbility;			
				}
			}
		
			return null;
		}

I even lowered the chance for specials for you, I really hope we don't loose you as player if its not too late.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2035, old post ID:13240

[sliptongue69]

Onto PvM. I do not know why, but it just disheartened me knowing that my Vammy is now obsolete. Sure, I can now use my tamers, mages, archers and disco/whatevs and have a more fair challenege . . . but when I use my ungimped(PvM wise . . . Enkel believes hes gimp PvP) dexxer I get wtfpwnt by just about everything I used to hunt. Being someone who spends about 2+ hours a night PvMing due to a lack of PvP options I did not mind how it was prior. I would just scale up my oposition vs. what level of challenge I wanted.

You wanted some pvp? All ya had to do was either say something or make a mage and not complain about not being able to fight a mage on your dexxer gimp. I woulda taken you to the field or the arena anytime, with no hostility. Instead you kept to yourself and hid under DHs nappy sac.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2035, old post ID:13242

[theindigothief]

I told you I am the type of player that likes trying to do stuff solo. Now it seems I have no choice but to recruit half the shard just to kill Irk. :/ If there were instanced corpses I'd have no problems with people tagging along(Not complaining since you guys are doing a bang up job with everything else.) Just would hate to see a cinture spawn and it not going based on luck but whoever snagged it first.

As for me complaining I never once asked to nerf a mage or how a mage works on this shard. Sound like something you do for Archers and Sammies anyone?


I know LS is chainable . . . fact is Enkel is crying because it is chainable.

Oh and fix archers k,pliasthnx. Figured someone has to support Enkel

Sorry for the fourm PvP Throg or however you spell your "gimp" dexxer Enkel



As for Squirrel, thanks for the help. I will try it out in the next day or two. I just know that I was getting hit for 70+ 30 and 70+ before I even got two hits in. Im 120 swords, 115 parry, 115 bush, and 40sh DCI. 130 hps too. The first few times I thought it was just luck . . . but then I couldn't take on paragon Swoop(never had problems before), two Changelings( never had problems before) or either of the two spiders. Not that before they were cake-walks . . . its just that typically I would be able to leech back most of my hps before they would kill me. Now they half-life me then grey screen. :/

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2035, old post ID:13248

[Gaiava Arkkaza]

Honored Execution and Momentum are only useless in PvP if you have no idea what you are doing on your character. Just ask Death how many times he has slain 2 guys at once because of those spells.

An example. You are with half your HP, your openent is about to do a combo. You see a rabit. HONORABLE EXECUTION! There, got healed enough to survive your oponenet a bit longer, and depending on your character and on yourself, even kill the guy.

I've just solo'ed a paragon Swoop, and only died once. Melee char 4/6 pally. That was easy. =/

EDIT: Tried a paragon changeling. Damn, that was fun. 4/6 pally spellweaver nox mage. o_O

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2035, old post ID:13250

[DOCTOR THUNDER]

in my opinion, the monster AI should be scaled based on what people should be hunting what monsters. Some stuff should be easy: wyverns, drakes, liches, most elementals. Some stuff should be harder: dragons, bloods, daemons. And then stuff like Shadow wyrm, AW, balron should get the super ai. But the loot on a balron should be a lot better than just some gold and gd longsword. Now where should the named ML stuff go on the monster totem pole? I think there has to be a compromise somewhere.

And Red, you really worded your poll in a bad way. It wasn't a matter of bringing the stock AI back, it was just toning some stuff down a bit. Its not fair to a player to be able to solo stuff one day, then get almost insta-killed the next. Yeah, the swoop thing supposedly was not changed, but its not hard to see why indigo thought it had been changed. The same thing with Enkel's reptalons. If you keep tweaking things like that, people will just assume that stuff was boosted or nerfed. And that leads to player frustration.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:2035, old post ID:13252