I love these kind of quotes.....halvertroy wrote: i said i'm not a practicing gay.
Stasi wrote: So you believe that their opinion will lead them to damnation, right? If it is true that their opinion will lead to their damnation, then their opinion is inferior, regardless what they think of it themselves. And while you may not feel that you are better than those people, your being saved makes you better than them. That isn't to say that you should be arrogant about it, but don't be condescending and say that the Saved are no better than the damned.
Well, I'm gonna throw this into a different perspective.Stasi wrote: I guess my point is more specifically that the "saved" are favored above the "unsaved" - not necessarily "better" in the arrogant sense. But in any case, you've got a group of people who are going to eternal joy, and a group of people going to eternal despair. And it doesn't seem to matter to a lot of people how big of a scumbag the "unsaved" person might be, they all go to the same hell. That suggests to me that God must really despise those who don't accept Christ as the Savior, to inflict such unending torment on them, regardless of their other qualities.
Well, it's hard to compare something temporary to something permanent. I guess you could compare it that knowing after you, let's say, fired them or cast them out of your work force, you know not to hire them again, because you gave them a chance, and opened yourself to them, as head of a company, to work for you and help you achieve the things you wanted to do as a company.Stasi wrote: The problem I have with your explanation is that not everyone is born into the world in equal circumstances. Furthermore, though I wouldn't be under any obligation to promote, or even retain the services of those who didn't work hard, I wouldn't punish them by casting them into a horrible situation for the rest of their lives.
So God, the immortal, all-powerful, and all-knowing being that controls the universe is put in danger by human moral frailties?Why would you let something back in that puts you into danger?
Hmmm, I disagree. People are coerced into following him, lest they suffer eternal torment. For someone who believes at least in the hell they'll be sent to if don't get "saved", it's really no choice at all. But for someone like myself, who sees no reason to believe in God, Heaven, or Hell, obviously it's not going to do much for me either way. Sure, I'd love to believe that ultimate justice will be meted out and that eternal joy can be mine if I fulfill some conditions, but to me, that just seems like wishful thinking.It's not like He's forcing us to follow him, in fact most people who're not christian know the outcomes of not being one. I mean He'd like for us to all work together and make advances in His "company", but that just doesn't happen.
It's really not a moral choice, or a meaningful choice when the options are eternal damnation/suffering and eternal joy. You're basically telling someone that they can either believe as you do or go to a horrible place where they will suffer immeasurably for eternity.Shinizo wrote: Well, I don't see how people are coerced into following him if they know what might/will happen to them in their mind. Explain.
I believe deist is the word you're looking for. It implies a belief in God without the adherence to any particular religion. It also applies to those who adhere to the watchmaker concept (God created the universe and set it in motion, but does not intervene), but not always.goalguarder12 wrote: *sigh* i go to a catholic school. i've begun to hate christianity and catholicism.
it just doesnt make much sense to me anymore. it seems like it could've all been made up like santa clause. Just there to keep kids from being naughty. except it was made by some old people a long time ago to stop everybody from being naughty.
I'd say i'm closer to Jewish than any other recognized religion. But i'm pretty much agnostic. i believe in god, but i dont think i need to go to church or any of that crap to worship him. and i think as long as you're a good person and love other people, then you're good in his eyes.
umm....what's the difference between deist and agnostic?manadren wrote: I believe deist is the word you're looking for. It implies a belief in God without the adherence to any particular religion. It also applies to those who adhere to the watchmaker concept (God created the universe and set it in motion, but does not intervene), but not always.
I called myself deist back in high school - actually I flipped between agnostic and deist, eventually settling on agnostic. But a few months back I made the jump to atheist. Not so much because I believe that God does not exist, but because I believe that religion and religious belief in general are unnecessary, and potentially harmful.
goalguarder12 wrote: umm....what's the difference between deist and agnostic?
and i'm not sure whether i believe that god created the universe or not. But i'm leaning towards not.
And how do you justify this hate?goalguarder12 wrote: *sigh* i go to a catholic school. i've begun to hate christianity and catholicism.
You'll study the Enlightenment sometime. I hope. . .goalguarder12 wrote: umm....what's the difference between deist and agnostic?
from A) 3 years of forced religion classesReaper wrote:And how do you justify this hate?goalguarder12 wrote: *sigh* i go to a catholic school. i've begun to hate christianity and catholicism.
the extremist way of thinking that many catholics have of "if you're not catholic, you're a terrible person and should burn in hell, or convert." i've been to a Jewish Synogogue, and i think the jewish religion is much more open-minded and accepting of other people. It's not a part of the jewish teachings to "spread the word" and try to convert people. They have a wonderful community that's like a large family within their synogogue.Dictionaries, my friend. Dictionaries.goalguarder12 wrote: umm....what's the difference between deist and agnostic?
and i'm not sure whether i believe that god created the universe or not. But i'm leaning towards not.
Outsiders often percieve belief systems inaccurately. Judaism is an exclusive religion. In other words, like all other Abrahamic religions (i.e. Christianity and Islam), they believe theirs is the only true religion. As for going out to "spread the word", is that a bad thing?i've been to a Jewish Synogogue, and i think the jewish religion is much more open-minded and accepting of other people. It's not a part of the jewish teachings to "spread the word" and try to convert people. They have a wonderful community that's like a large family within their synogogue.
Do you really think that if any sect of Christianity were true that people who claim to be "saved" but act like dickwads would be appreciated by a being who is wholly benevolent, good, and just?From christianity, all i've seen is crazy people trying to tell me i have to believe a certain thing or i'll die. and i see people who don't give a crap about the religion at all, but they're looked at as saved. just because they had blessed water put over their head when they were a baby?
Faith, or a brainwashed devotion to meaningless rituals and "forced" good deeds?The jewish religion requires HARD work. lots and lots of it. my friend is jewish and he has to complete 200 service hours a year, on top of the 20 service hours my school requires. He has to go to a second, 4-5 hour school session every sunday morning to learn about the jewish religion and to learn to speak and read hebrew. He's had to dedicate a significant portion of his life to the religion, and to me that shows real faith.
Why should people who convert to Christianity be forced to follow Jewish laws? How is being permitted to live life free of the laws observed by a religion you don't believe in lazy?This year, i have to take "Church History." we've been learning about the beginnings of christianity. We learned that after Jesus died, non-jews (gentiles) wanted to be christian. But they didn't want to follow the Jewish laws. They thought the jewish laws were too strict. So finally the Council of Jerusalem decided that gentiles can convert to christianity without having to follow the many jewish laws.
basically, christians in that time were lazy jews. instead of actually working hard and giving up part of their lives to devote themselves to god, they took the easy way out.
And you think all or most Christians are false? Weren't you the one railing against prejudism not too long ago? You see one side of one sect of Christianity and you think you know what the whole of Christianity is like? You think the face of Christianity is the Pope, televangelists, or some hypocrite next door? That's pretty myopic.That's why i dont like Christianity. I've just seen too much bad. And yes, you can argue that there's a lot of good too. Take Mother Theresa for example. Okay, Mother Theresa is one person who made a HUGE difference. Other religions such as Judaism may not emphasize personal response to charity, but as a whole, they help a lot. We recognize Christianity as being a religion that gives a lot back to the world. But that's only because they're the most noticable. Other religions do the same, but they don't showboat. they don't tell everybody about it. they dont gloat. because they arent doing it to convert people or to make their religion popular. They do it because they KNOW it's the right thing to do. Whether it has to do with God or not, it's the right thing to do.
