Was Mars ever warm?

[Stasi]

Meteor study pours cold water on warm Mars theory

Friday, July 22, 2005

WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- A study of meteorites chipped off the surface of Mars suggests the planet has been frozen for 4 billion years and probably never had the warm wet conditions that could have given rise to life, two researchers said Thursday.

Their study of two meteorites that fell to Earth suggests they were never in warm conditions. The report, published in the journal Science, contradicts theories the now-frozen planet may once have been warm enough for life to have arisen.

"First, we evaluated what the meteorites could have experienced during ejection from Mars, 11 to 15 million years ago, in order to set an upper limit on the temperatures in a worst-case scenario for shock-heating," said Benjamin Weiss, an assistant professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. He did the work while a graduate student at the California Institute of Technology.

They concluded the two meteorites were unlikely to have been above the boiling point of water during their ejection from the Martian surface 11 million years ago.

Then Weiss and fellow student David Shuster measured the amount of argon remaining in the samples.

Argon, a gas, is known to leak out of rocks at a rate that depends on temperature.

The cooler the rock has been, the more argon will have been retained.

"The small amount of argon loss that has apparently taken place in these meteorites is remarkable. Any way we look at it, these rocks have been cold for a very long time," Shuster said in a statement.

Their calculations suggest the Martian surface has been frozen for most of the past 4 billion years.

"On Earth, you couldn't find a single rock that has been below even room temperature for that long," Shuster said.

That does not mean that rovers looking for evidence of warm springs, lakes or seeps on Mars are wasting their time. Geothermal activity below the surface could have created small areas that could harbor life.

"Our research doesn't mean that there weren't pockets of isolated water in geothermal springs for long periods of time, but suggests instead that there haven't been large areas of free-standing water for 4 billion years," Shuster said.

"Our results seem to imply that surface features indicating the presence and flow of liquid water formed over relatively short time periods," Shuster said.

Copyright 2005 Reuters. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

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[Stasi]

This is interesting because I have been thinking there's a realistic possibility of microscopic life on Mars. However, according to this study, that possibility seems less likely - either that or the conditions in which the scientific community believes life can emerge may not be universally 'true'.

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[Cicero]

I've always been open to the possibility of "life" on Mars.

In a way I still think that maybe there was and like Stasi said "the conditions in which the scientific community believes life can emerge may not be universally 'true'."

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[Shinizo]

I know how to solve all this 'life on Mars' theory. Blow it up.

But either way, I found the first post interesting.

(By the way, you broke that copyright law)

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[MrSelf]

It is interesting, one of the things I am learning right now in school is details on all the planets and of course Mars has always been a focal point to human interest. It seem that Mars, which is so like Earth, is a little too cool. It doesn't have a magnetic field and it looks like the small field it did have was not due to internal effects - like the planets that have magnetic fields. Without that magnetic field, and with a lower temperature, a suitable atmosphere never formed.

Venus, on the other side of earth, looks as if it is too warm. An atmosphere has formed despite the lack of a proper magnetic field, but it's proximity to the sun made the surface temperature too warm and all of the water vapor has long left Venus, carried away with solar winds.

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[Jack Potato]

ET says, "follow the m&m's, not your heart."

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[Stasi]

I'd really like to find out more about the planets in the Alpha Centauri star system, since, aside from Mars, they're supposedly the most likely other candidates for supporting life. Of course, they're something like ~4 light years away so we won't see an investigation for a while....

As for venus, the sci-fi geek in me would like to imagine that there's some sort of grizzled life form that lives in its harsh environ, but that's quite unlikely.

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[Cereal_Killer]

Hasn't it been suggesteed that one of Jupiters moons could possibly support life?

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[Stasi]

Yeah, based on spectrometer readings of Callisto and Ganymede, it appears that they have the organic compounds that are necessary ingredients for life.

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[Cereal_Killer]

I saw an interesting TV program a LONG time ago, that had CG impressions of the sort of creatures that could survive on those moons, and other various types of theoretical atmosphere. It went into the science of it too, it was quite good.

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[Stasi]

That could be interesting... trying to figure out the physiology of alien life forms given their environments.

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[Jack Potato]

hmm...jupiter...i do need an apartment...or at least i will

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[OLKMED]

Hasn't it been suggesteed that one of Jupiters moons could possibly support life?

I saw a discovery channel thing about that. The idea is based on the big bang theory (or something that suggests at one point everything was warm or hot). they compare that moon to the vents in the ocean that are really far under the surface of the water in areas that would normally be so cold almost no life would be there, but certain creatures thrive on the conditions made by a the thermal vent (heat and the gas).(i saw the iMAX movie about the ones on earth). evidence from some probe (i forget which one now) suggested the possibility of there being underwater thermal vents and given that those do exist then there is the POSSIBILITY that there could be some form of life there too.

EDIT: fixed some junk that would make this look like i posted this at 3AM ( love that song, before matchbox 20 (and more importantly Rob Thomas) sold out).

EDIT: Bah! there i go again.

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[OLKMED]

That could be interesting... trying to figure out the physiology of alien life forms given their environments.

Yeah it's really interesting to think of what an alien might look like. If it had similar conditions to us (and it were intelligent) you could assume that it would look similar to us (in that it has skin, eyes, hearing thingys, and such), but an alien could really look like anything. they could be much larger or smaller than us.

heck, we humans are (for the most part) getting larger. maybe the aliens' evolution is causing them to get smaller, if we ever make alien contact we may be dealing with dwarfs or giants or who knows what, and who says they talk, they might prefer sign language or ESP or frequencies that we can't even hear. Maybe our radio waves are just like yelling to them

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[MrSelf]

I'd really like to find out more about the planets in the Alpha Centauri star system, since, aside from Mars, they're supposedly the most likely other candidates for supporting life.  Of course, they're something like ~4 light years away so we won't see an investigation for a while....

As for venus, the sci-fi geek in me would like to imagine that there's some sort of grizzled life form that lives in its harsh environ, but that's quite unlikely.

Yeah, ever since I started watching Babylon 5 and put 2 and 2 together, I've wondered about the Alpha Centauri system. I'm not sure that life can exist in a binary star system, the temperatures would probably be too extreme and inconsistant to harbor life, but then again maybe the greenhouse effect could properly heat the planet at far enough distances from the stars to make it possible.


There are several moons around jupiter and saturn that could possibly harbor some sort of life. Europa looks appealling, as do Callisto and Ganymede. Io is interesting since it is caught in jupiters equivalent of the van allen belts. This is the kind of stuff that is very interesting to me. Mimas is... interesting. Google it, I think you will recognize it...

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[Majenta]

I've always wondered why there is such a (apparently) narrow minded view within scientific communities as to the sort of conditions in which life could survive. I have no knowledge of the subject, so it's not for me to say, but could anyone explain to me WHY it is generally agreed that the sort of conditions here on earth are the only ones that could support life? Surely that's only the sort of life that lives here! Why couldn't there be other sorts of organisms that would thrive in completely alternative environments?!

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[OLKMED]

ET says, "follow the m&m's, not your heart."

they were reeses pieces!

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[Red Squirrel]

I've always wondered why there is such a (apparently) narrow minded view within scientific communities as to the sort of conditions in which life could survive.  I have no knowledge of the subject, so it's not for me to say, but could anyone explain to me WHY it is generally agreed that the sort of conditions here on earth are the only ones that could support life?  Surely that's only the sort of life that lives here!  Why couldn't there be other sorts of organisms that would thrive in completely alternative environments?!

I've always wondered that too.

Personally I don't think there's any life on any of the planets, but I'm not stuck to that belief either given the vastess of the universe.

I just don't believe there's aliens like we see on TV, other life forms are probably less human like.

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[Stasi]

I've always wondered that too.

Personally I don't think there's any life on any of the planets, but I'm not stuck to that belief either given the vastess of the universe.

I just don't believe there's aliens like we see on TV, other life forms are probably less human like.

Firstly, as incredibly huge as the universe is, the odds are that there is life on other planets. Whether that life consists of intelligent beings or microscopic organisms is the real question. And even then, an 'intelligent' being may not be as intelligent as the average human.

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[Anonymous]

I've always been open to the possibility of "life" on Mars.

LOL

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