PVP opinion

Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:26 pm

I'd like to get everyone's opinion on PVP on this shard. We tend to focus more on PVM but I don't want to forget PVP, I want this hard to have quality in both. So besides the lack of people to pvp with, what do you think of the pvp on this shard and should some stuff be nerfed/changed?

Also if you think something is overpowered, including something you use, please do let me know. Even if its something you use, you will not benefit from it as people will just quit PVP altogether.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1844, old post ID:11901

d. · Post by d. » Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:45 pm

eh, not to sound disrespectful, but this will never be a pvp server. There has been so much focus on pvm and so many new items added, it is a pvm server to get all the items needed for pvp. The pvp on here is largely based on gear, and very little skill is required. The casting of magery is also very weird on here, it's very easy to chain spells and mage vs mage pvp is pretty one-dimentional on here. Its all about nox-bleed mages, and hard hitting archers. The pvm on here is amazing, and the ai tweaks and everything makes it a lot of fun. But because there is such a focus on pvm, and pvp on here is based on items so much, I don't see pvp going to another level.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1844, old post ID:11909

sliptongue69 · Post by **sliptongue69** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 8:46 pm

I think it's pretty balanced. IMO bows shouldn't be as quick to fire, but I'm not gonna bitch about it. Other than that, we just need more people.

And d. aos has always been about the bleed/nox mages. They are the toughest bastages to take out. Other templates work, but nox/bleed will always win. Unless of course nox was easier to cure, which I'd be all for.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1844, old post ID:11910

theindigothief · Post by **theindigothief** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 2:09 am

I have to disagree with d. to some degree. UOs pvp is item based, yes . . . but I feel that this shard does well in taking the item equation out. How? By having it relitively easy for new players to get established. I've been playing here for about 2-3 weeks and am nearing enough stuff to pvp with. When it comes to item based PVP games . . . typically it is the bridge between the haves and the have nots that determines the victor. Here I do not feel that this is the case.

Iunno, that is just my chain of thought. You can look at the flip side and claim that "It is too easy to get loaded that it detracts from the game." To that I say this is a game, not a job of running gaunt all day Demise.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1844, old post ID:11928

sliptongue69 · Post by **sliptongue69** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:54 am

If swing speed is sped up, then ma needs to be turretable. :-/

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1844, old post ID:11935

d. · Post by d. » Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:19 am

dexxers can easily get 350+ total stats. Mages can easily get 40 lmc and enough mr /w med to have infinite mana, to spam spells without thinking about timing, conserving mana, etc. With all the crazy resist arties, and the fast you can get +15 necro on 4 pieces of jewelry + midnight bracers means you only need 20 base necro and you can go into vamp form. 4 sec aids, insane modded dexxer weps, and more. This shard has negated much skill in pvp. Ofcourse all aos server pvp will be item based, but most aren't anything to the extent of this server. This server is great, but just in the way it has headed, all the mass amount of pvming and farming required to be able to compete at the top, might as well have a RPG LvL system like WoW while we are at it, cuz by the time new people get all the junk they need on hee, they will be max level anyways. This server is fun, but deffinatley not geared towards pvp, and theres no shame in that, it's a great pvm/friendly server, and I've enjoyed it mostly so far.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1844, old post ID:11936

sliptongue69 · Post by **sliptongue69** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:32 am

It's just easier to get all the items to pvp on Valor. Items are an issue on all aos+ servers. Less so on newer servers where everyone is starting basically fresh anyway. Sure, you can run in with no resist lrc and just spam your way to the top on "other" servers, but to really compete, it takes better suits.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1844, old post ID:11938

Finlander · Post by **Finlander** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:28 am

You say that playing an archer is a piece of cake, but youre forgetting that a good mage on this shard is still better than a good archer.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1844, old post ID:11942

Dumples · Post by **Dumples** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:36 am

Finlander wrote:You say that playing an archer is a piece of cake, but youre forgetting that a good mage on this shard is still better than a good archer.

As far as PvP goes, I don't know if I'd agree. They seem pretty close in different ways. The mage can potentially heal itself back up and cause damage over time stuff, and if they get the first hit can cause heavy damage with big spells, but archers have the highest damage output and crazy fast shooting speed that can take a mage out in seconds no matter what the resists and stuff are.

I dunno, I agree with the earlier statement that PvP is fine other than the lack of people. The items definitely make battles different here than on some other shards people may have played on. I'd say that's just a conditioning thing. People need to get used to how it is here for a while and see that if everyone is at similar levels with items that skill does become a big part of PvP (and PvM).

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1844, old post ID:11943

Finlander · Post by **Finlander** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:42 am

Dumples, iam not saying that archer are underpowered or otherway around, iam saying its balanced currently.

But iam just saying a fact, in a box duels or pretty much any duels its a archer who falls to a mage if the mage knows what hes doing (not everyone knows tho, but that isnt my problem). When it goes to point wheres theres lets say two archer vs two mage, thats when i think archers got slightly advance, atleast from my own experience co-operating with subotai.

And i still hate the attidute of people who think that archers or melee'ers are some sort of morons who push two buttons, i just wonder that how much honorable it makes you if youre a mage and use easyuo to do everything for you. Not all do this of course.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1844, old post ID:11944

d. · Post by d. » Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:55 am

even when things are balanced, mages should be overall better if the person is skilled. Mages are infact harder to play, there are many more macros and lots more to be aware of when playing one. On a server like this, it is true getting a basic suit together is easy for pvp. But what I'm saying is if you want to really compete on here, you need to do some serious farming. there are so many lamer-template available on here, and such crazy items, it truly is item based pvp to a major extent compared to other servers. There are so many crazy resist pieces and so many items that add crazy lmc/mr on here, mages are hardly any skill anyways, infinite mana to just see who pings better and can out-spam one another.

One other thing, don't eve talk about archers and dexxers like they are real pvp, especially on here. I can play a dexxer ONE HANDED and do better than most. Dexxers are a gimp joke, and IMO are just for people that can't even compete on a mage. If you are good, mages are better, period.

And Hector, it's true that two archers are good in 2 vs 2, but only because they can do outragous damage + mortal gank. With truly skilled mages, 2 mages can take down two archers. Archers are all a roll of the dice. Your chance to hit or not, pull off the mortal, and gank your enemy. Swing speed on your character remains fairly constant, aid timer remains fairly constant, the only thing that reall changes is you hitting or not. Mages "swing speed" viewing their casting, is up to the individual's ability, offense and defense. They always hit (minus during evasion) but unless you are skilled you aren't going to kill someone on a mage.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1844, old post ID:11945

Finlander · Post by **Finlander** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:00 am

d. wrote: Dexxers are a gimp joke, and IMO are just for people that can't even compete on a mage.

Sorry but i dont play uo to prove anything.

I was really hoping this topic would not go into this after the first archer replies here.

edit: Just noticed that you had added some text and i thought i might comment on that one too: I dont understand where youre coming with your pitchfork agaisnt me, wasnt i myself giving credit to skilled mages?

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1844, old post ID:11946

d. · Post by d. » Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:05 am

i don't play uo to prove anything IRL, but in PvP, player versus player, the idea is who can kill who, and who is better.

I didn't mean to target anyone, I'm just saying that if we are talking about pvp, let's talk about mages pvp, because dexxers in general take hardly anything to play compared to a mage. There's a lot more involved in playing a mage, and that's where the good pvp is. Playing a dexxer or fighting a dexxer is the same fight over and over, very one-dimensional. Mage vs mage leads to many many scenarios.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1844, old post ID:11947

Finlander · Post by **Finlander** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:09 am

We cant talk only about mages pvp as here are dexxers who pvp too.
Takes it skill or not.

And the topic maker did not state that its mages only who are allowed to reply here about their experiences. Infact i think the topic maker is a mainly dexxer himself too..

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1844, old post ID:11948

theindigothief · Post by **theindigothief** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:13 pm

I find that people typically only consider what they excell in as a skill-required field and everything else gimp. Don't worry, Im gimp as sin and I know it

Its not entirely your fault. I mean out in the real world people often consider what they know as more valueable than others. I. E. Multiple Intelligences.

If archers/dexxers are so one-dimmensional . . . can't you just disarm them? Do dexxers have a skill that does such things to mages?

"Thou can't cast for 3 seconds because thou happens to be nubbish."

Red I have the system message all set up if you wanna make it happen

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1844, old post ID:11949

sliptongue69 · Post by **sliptongue69** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:27 pm

Finlander wrote:And i still hate the attidute of people who think that archers or melee'ers are some sort of morons who push two buttons, i just wonder that how much honorable it makes you if youre a mage and use easyuo to do everything for you. Not all do this of course.

Well, I sort of agree that they are...especially if that's all they've ever played in years upon years of pvp experience. Don't get me wrong, however, I think dexxers are a great way to wet your toes in the pvp scene, but then move on to the intricascies of magery. The only people I've ever known to use EUO/Krrios to do their dirty work were the chinese and the original Equalibrium members.

d. wrote:On a server like this, it is true getting a basic suit together is easy for pvp. But what I'm saying is if you want to really compete on here, you need to do some serious farming. there are so many lamer-template available on here, and such crazy items, it truly is item based pvp to a major extent compared to other servers. There are so many crazy resist pieces and so many items that add crazy lmc/mr on here, mages are hardly any skill anyways, infinite mana to just see who pings better and can out-spam one another.

I'm not going to read the rest as you do NOT need artis to "compete" as I don't wear many. I wear RBC, Hom, lightning shoes, orny, and Gypsy robe. That is IT. The rest is comprised of enhanced or runic pieces. Yet I can do better than people who have whole suits comprised of artis? You don't need all the artis in the game to be the best. It just makes it easier.

Indigo: Dexxers can disarm to, just gotta use the right weps.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1844, old post ID:11953

Death · Post by **Death** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:14 pm

theindigothief wrote:I find that people typically only consider what they excell in as a skill-required field and everything else gimp. Don't worry, Im gimp as sin and I know it

Its not entirely your fault. I mean out in the real world people often consider what they know as more valueable than others. I. E. Multiple Intelligences.

If archers/dexxers are so one-dimmensional . . . can't you just disarm them? Do dexxers have a skill that does such things to mages?

"Thou can't cast for 3 seconds because thou happens to be nubbish."

Red I have the system message all set up if you wanna make it happen

If OSI ever made a pvp mute special shot they'd lose half their playerbase. There are monsters that can mute you however.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1844, old post ID:11955

theindigothief · Post by **theindigothief** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:15 pm

It was a joke playing on d.'s analogy of using a weapon is the equivilent to casting spells. You can disarm a weapon. You can't mute a mage.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1844, old post ID:11958

d. · Post by d. » Mon Dec 10, 2007 3:53 pm

eh. i don't feel like repeating myself anymore on the basic fact that mages take much more to play than dexxers. To get back on track of the origional post, here are my beliefes:

-aos shards will ALWAYS be item based to some extent
-this shard has so many items if you want to compete you have to do quite a bit of PvM, or have some very nice friends.
-On here, the skills, casting rate, ai timer, and templates make for a fairly "balanced" server. However, this balance makes the server feel like riding a bike with training wheels.
-The insane amount of lmc/mr on here allows for mages to spam spells without considering conserving mana or meding for full dumps, the amount of mana they have is insane.
-dexxers can easily get 350+ total stats, and max swing/aids with jsut about any dexxer template and weapon

This negates A lot of skill when playing a mage, if you are never concerned with mana, it comes down to who pings better. Dexxers still die to a good mage on here, but their aids/max swing with any wep and mad stats, easy vamp form etc makes them boring to play, and anoying to play against. It's my belief that good aos pvp has low caps, were people must still work for their gear, but gear has less effect on the character in game than the person choosing the skills of the template and how they chose to use them. This shard has gone a completely different route than a pvp shard, and it is majorly pvm. I don't see this shard ever growing large because of it's pvp, simply because the level that it is at won't atract many avid pvpers. I am not slighting the shard in any way, this shard is unique and squirrel has done a lot of great things. However, the route it has gone has pulled it too far away from pvp to ever have a pvp community form. I've pvped for seven out of my nine years of playing UO, this is how I see it. It is my oppinion, and it's fine if you don't agree, but I would put money on what I've said, simply because it has happend on so many shards in the past.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1844, old post ID:11968

DOCTOR THUNDER · Post by **DOCTOR THUNDER** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:03 pm

My opinion on the opinions of other people's pvp opinions:

If they die to a dexxer, the dexxer is a gimp. If they die to a mage, the mage spams. If a necromage casts anything other than ma/clumsy/poison, then they are using newb tactics. If anyone else even looks at the 2 people fighting, then it is a gank. If someone runs anywhere in the general direction of a house, they are trying to house hide. If you use disarm even once, you are spamming it and it should be nerfed. Same thing goes for mortal. If your opponents ping and comp are faster, they hax.

hopefully I covered all the bases.

In relation to the topic, most of the playerbase on a server is usually pvm anyways. Someone's sig said, "Take out all of fel except coon and 50 tiles around brit gate". At least on here there are people in a lot more areas of fel, even if they are doing pvm.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1844, old post ID:11971

Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 5:18 pm

Yeah the idea behind AoAs was exactly that, getting people all over fel. Thats why originally they did not drop off champ spawns.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1844, old post ID:11973

sliptongue69 · Post by **sliptongue69** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:01 pm

Red Squirrel wrote:Thats why originally they did not drop off champ spawns.

Yeah they did. :X You just recently (in the past couple months) changed that, then changed it back.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1844, old post ID:11974

Dumples · Post by **Dumples** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:12 pm

Well I'm not the world's greatest PvPer to really give opinion on it. All I know is that almost every change that applies to PvP affects good or bad in PvP as well. I vote that things are pretty good right now, and we just need to keep adding more content, and systems for PvP tournaments and CTF type of stuff.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1844, old post ID:11975

Red Squirrel · Post by **Red Squirrel** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:35 pm

Yeah thats definatly one thing I want, is to add a CTF system. I want to even have a system where everyone has same gear, as well (would probably be a toggle option). In fact, making duals like that could be loads of fun. More people would want to participate too I'm sure.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1844, old post ID:11976

sliptongue69 · Post by **sliptongue69** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:45 pm

As for the same gear, have everything already equipped put in the bank (in a bag) and then equip them with a nonmovable robe with all 80s resist (to compensate for elf resists), 50% LMC, 100% LRC, 4/6 casting.

Archived topic from AOV, old topic ID:1844, old post ID:11977